| 00:04:38 | <SammySkye> | kiskasent |
| 00:04:47 | <SammySkye> | sent* |
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| 00:35:48 | <steering> | It is impossible to make The Lounge rotate through multiple IRC network servers, e.g. for fallback when a primary server is down. It doesn't even work with round-robin DNS.[5] <-- lmaoooooooo really |
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| 00:47:20 | <mete> | steering: many of the 'modern' irc clients have such issues unfortunately :D |
| 00:47:31 | <mete> | that's why I stayed as long as possible on mIRC... |
| 00:47:42 | <steering> | Fri@1847.37 -!- Irssi: Client: irssi 1.4.5 (20231003 1405) |
| 00:47:46 | <steering> | 🤷♂️ |
| 00:48:06 | <mete> | I'm a friend of the console, but not for irc. don't know why :D |
| 00:48:55 | <@JAA> | irssi++ |
| 00:48:55 | <eggdrop> | [karma] 'irssi' now has 3 karma! |
| 00:49:01 | <mete> | and yeah, nowadays it has to be a web frontend for me... because of limitations at work ;) |
| 00:49:10 | <mete> | ofc you could do that with guacamole or so... :D |
| 00:49:34 | <steering> | It took me a while to become comfortable with irssi. At the time I switched, I was only in a handful of channels, so the limitations weren't too bad. |
| 00:49:53 | <mete> | steering: from what client did you migrate to irssi? |
| 00:49:56 | <steering> | By now I'm just so used to it that switching would be terrible |
| 00:50:01 | <steering> | Mostly mirc, but also everything :P |
| 00:50:20 | <mete> | I've.... 10 networks and ~100 channels xD |
| 00:50:41 | <steering> | I also used xchat, kvirc, virc, and probably some others pretty extensively back then |
| 00:50:50 | <@JAA> | I think I went mIRC → XChat → HexChat → irssi. |
| 00:51:05 | <mete> | :D |
| 00:51:26 | <steering> | But I've been using irssi for uhh... well I was using it by 2008 |
| 00:52:12 | <steering> | I had stopped using xchat before hexchat was even a thing. Mostly I couldn't stand the fact that it tried to (and sometimes failed at) replace channel statuses with the colored dots. Ew. :P |
| 00:52:20 | <@JAA> | Actually, I was probably using irssi and HexChat in parallel for some time looking at the timeline. |
| 00:52:36 | <mete> | I used mIRC still in 2020 I guess... only when I moved away from windows I also changed my irc client. currently using conovos, it's OK but not more :D |
| 00:52:36 | <steering> | I was on a lot of networks with weird prefixes at the time (not just ~&% but also like ! and other stuff) |
| 00:52:54 | <@JAA> | Also 'XChat-WDK' |
| 00:53:24 | <steering> | Mostly I used mirc whenever I was on Windows (I even had smuggled a copy onto my shared drive at school via.. a flash drive, yeah, it was really easy) |
| 00:53:32 | <@JAA> | Maybe it was pre-'HexChat' even, yeah. |
| 00:53:43 | <@JAA> | Early 2010s sounds about right for switching to irssi full-time. |
| 00:54:05 | <mete> | for a long time I used mIRC as RDS app via html5 :D |
| 00:54:24 | <steering> | mostly I switched to irssi because I *could* use it from everywhere, and not have to like, carry around or rebuild all of my mirc settings all the time etc |
| 00:54:44 | <steering> | just carry around putty.exe instead |
| 00:55:20 | <steering> | also, fireonlive made me do it :P |
| 00:55:25 | <steering> | fireonlive++ |
| 00:55:25 | <eggdrop> | [karma] 'fireonlive' now has 925 karma! |
| 00:55:26 | <@JAA> | Yeah, similar thing here. |
| 00:55:46 | <@JAA> | I was using ZNC behind those other clients for a while and was annoyed by how much it sucked. |
| 00:55:59 | <steering> | yeah. |
| 00:56:08 | <@JAA> | So I just wanted to run the entire thing on the server and SSH into it. irssi is perfect for that. |
| 00:56:09 | <steering> | psybnc -> sbnc -> znc, lol |
| 00:56:23 | <mete> | steering: same here :D |
| 00:56:31 | <mete> | and also used bitlbee some time... |
| 00:56:41 | <mete> | msn, yahoo chat, iqc all in irc xD |
| 00:56:42 | <steering> | ah, I only ever used bitlbee with irssi |
| 00:57:23 | <mete> | I had written some funky plugins to sbnc afaik :D |
| 00:57:30 | <steering> | haha, yeah |
| 00:57:38 | <steering> | I never wrote much for it but fireonlive wrote a *ton* |
| 00:58:07 | <steering> | I never bothered to learn tcl, meanwhile he was working on Eggdrop scripts, Stormbot (eggdrop script) scripts, sbnc scripts |
| 00:58:20 | <steering> | Oh and don't forget enormous mirc bots |
| 00:58:26 | <mete> | when I was using bitlbee I was most likely... 17 or so... so that was in 2006 |
| 00:58:43 | <mete> | I never ran mIRC bots, only eggdrops :D |
| 00:58:43 | <steering> | mmh, I used gaim in those days :D |
| 00:59:03 | <steering> | although I think I tried pretty much every IM multi-client-thingy there was in those days |
| 00:59:07 | <steering> | Trillian was pretty sleek |
| 00:59:23 | <mete> | somehow trillian is something I remember at least as a name |
| 00:59:28 | <steering> | (and as today they all sucked at IRC :D) |
| 01:00:59 | <mete> | the good old times |
| 01:02:06 | <@JAA> | Here's a fun little puzzle: there's a Debian unstable system that hasn't been upgraded in a couple years due to not being used. It still has unmerged /usr. Now trying to upgrade it leads to this beautiful dependency loop: usrmerge can't be installed because it first needs a newer libc-bin version; libc-bin requires a newer base-files version; base-files can't be upgraded because it needs a merged |
| 01:02:12 | <@JAA> | /usr... |
| 01:02:24 | <steering> | f |
| 01:02:32 | <steering> | time to reinstall :) |
| 01:02:58 | <@JAA> | Where's the fun in that? |
| 01:03:02 | <steering> | you could probably duplicate usrmerge yourself and somehow manually update the installed db? |
| 01:03:20 | <steering> | or find an older usrmerge.deb |
| 01:03:31 | <@JAA> | That sounds messier than bumping libc-bin from snapshots.d.o. |
| 01:03:48 | <steering> | I assume that means find an older libc-bin.deb :P |
| 01:04:07 | <mete> | please don't remember me to update my 20 debian boxes still running on bullseye |
| 01:04:35 | <steering> | > The snapshot archive is a wayback machine that allows access to old packages based on dates and version numbers. It consists of all past and current packages the Debian archive provides. |
| 01:04:43 | <steering> | neat |
| 01:04:43 | <@JAA> | usrmerge has a Breaks: libc-bin (<< 2.36-9~); libc-bin is 2.36-8... F |
| 01:07:47 | <@JAA> | Hmm, what does that ~ mean? |
| 01:08:10 | <@JAA> | Also, s/Breaks/Conflicts/ |
| 01:09:30 | <steering> | https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-version |
| 01:10:32 | <mete> | 2AM here... good night |
| 01:11:18 | <steering> | Seems to me like it would just match ~deb...? |
| 01:11:43 | <@JAA> | Hmm |
| 01:11:58 | <@JAA> | Trying to parse whether this means that 2.36-9 sorts below or above 2.36-9~. |
| 01:12:24 | <@JAA> | > The lexical comparison is a comparison of ASCII values modified so that all the letters sort earlier than all the non-letters and so that a tilde sorts before anything, even the end of a part. |
| 01:12:40 | <steering> | yeah, plus the examples below |
| 01:12:53 | <steering> | so 2.36-9~ sorts before 2.36-9 (empty part) |
| 01:13:04 | <steering> | I think? |
| 01:13:17 | <@JAA> | That's how I'm reading it, yeah. |
| 01:13:32 | <@JAA> | But then why is the tilde there in the first place? '<< 2.36-9' would achieve the same thing, no? |
| 01:16:25 | <steering> | wait, no, that whole paragraph doesn't even apply |
| 01:16:25 | <nicolas17> | I think 2.36.9~ < 2.36-9~beta1 < 2.36-9 |
| 01:16:41 | <steering> | >First the initial part of each string consisting entirely of non-digit characters is determined |
| 01:17:18 | <steering> | I think? but then it says "these two parts are compared lexically" and it's not clear what the other part is? everything except initial non-digits? IDK |
| 01:17:52 | <steering> | oh nvm "These two steps (comparing and removing initial non-digit strings and initial digit strings) are repeated until a difference is found" |
| 01:18:21 | <@JAA> | Hmm, let's try... |
| 01:18:29 | <@JAA> | (WCGW?) |
| 01:18:34 | <steering> | Yeah I think nicolas17 is right, so <<2.36-9 would mean it conflicts with 2.36-9~ |
| 01:19:02 | <@JAA> | So it should be compatible with 2.36-9 then. |
| 01:22:30 | <@JAA> | Can confirm :-) |
| 01:24:51 | <nicolas17> | dpkg --compare-versions 2.36-9~ '<<' 2.36-9~beta1; echo $? |
| 01:25:29 | <@JAA> | Ah, good to know! |
| 01:25:54 | <@JAA> | mete: By the way, nothing wrong with bullseye, LTS doesn't even end until next year! |
| 01:26:51 | <@JAA> | For an exciting time, run squeeze or something. :-P |
| 01:30:10 | <@JAA> | A bit silly that the comparison stuff is documented on the Version field rather than the fields for package relationships (Depends, Breaks, Conflicts, etc.) which actually use comparisons. |
| 01:31:01 | <@JAA> | https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html is where I landed first, and it doesn't even mention where to find the meaning of the comparisons... |
| 01:31:39 | <@JAA> | Oh wait, it does, I just missed 'in the format described in Version'. |
| 01:48:22 | <steering> | JAA: yeah, it took me a while to find from there too |
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| 03:47:44 | <steering> | anyone got recommendations for decent, cheap POE IP cameras? I want some cameras for the house :P |
| 03:54:37 | <@JAA> | ... why does systemd now come with a daemon to delete /tmp? This is getting ridiculous. |
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| 03:57:22 | <@JAA> | Oh, that's older, I just hadn't noticed its existence yet (and it didn't do anything here). |
| 03:58:56 | <nicolas17> | I think it's also to ensure /tmp and others are created on boot? |
| 03:59:37 | <@JAA> | Yeah, I mean the part where it automatically deletes files that haven't been accessed or modified for some amount of time. |
| 04:01:28 | <@JAA> | It appears that Debian is enabling that by default on new installations for Trixie. |
| 04:06:13 | <@JAA> | (Or maybe Forky, not quite clear to me.) |
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| 06:14:58 | <Flashfire42> | https://zadzmo.org/code/nepenthes/ well this is something |
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| 07:28:07 | <pabs> | Flashfire42: see also https://git.madhouse-project.org/algernon/iocaine https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42792256 |
| 07:30:02 | <pabs> | https://chronicles.mad-scientist.club/tales/a-season-on-iocaine/ |
| 07:34:02 | <@JAA> | Also https://marcusb.org/hacks/quixotic.html |
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| 08:20:56 | <SammySkye> | finally got that working, I'm a bit dense.. Thank you kiska! |
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| 08:32:21 | <kiska> | No support available, go use Google |
| 08:34:51 | <SammySkye> | nah I don't need any, like I said; I got it working. |
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| 10:12:20 | <steering> | JAA: yeah, systemd-tmpfiles has been around for a while, it's... honestly not actually bad |
| 10:14:57 | <steering> | pretty sure it's been enabled by default in Debian for a while as well, I have it on bookworm |
| 10:17:31 | <steering> | ah no I see what you mean, my bookworm system doesn't clean it except on reboot. my (quite old) sid system has it cleaned on 10d though. |
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| 13:32:28 | <mete> | JAA: nothing wrong with bullseye, but still I need to update at some point... :) |
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| 18:20:17 | <@JAA> | steering: Well, I can immediately think of scenarios where it'll break important stuff, unless it has additional rules to the ones I saw. For example, AB puts Unix sockets in /tmp for accessing the Python world of a process (via the manhole package). Those are created when the process starts but potentially only accessed months later. |
| 18:20:41 | <@JAA> | Maybe those sockets should be in /run or something, but yeah. |
| 18:22:53 | <@JAA> | If I'm reading the config file right, that Debian sid system I was upgrading last night automatically got a rule to disable the regular cleaning. And that's what's supposed to happen according to the changelog entry from May 2024, too. |
| 18:23:17 | <@JAA> | mete: Sure, but why do it now if you can just procrastinate until August 2026? :-) |
| 18:27:02 | <mete> | I don't like to procrastinate things :D |
| 18:33:38 | <@JAA> | procrastination++ |
| 18:33:39 | <eggdrop> | [karma] 'procrastination' now has 36 karma! |
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