| 00:12:38 | <nukke> | scalping is a way of life |
| 00:12:52 | <nukke> | Modern day hustling |
| 00:17:56 | | Umbire quits [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] |
| 01:33:26 | | etnguyen03 (etnguyen03) joins |
| 03:06:41 | <nicolas17> | https://bsky.app/profile/kint.bsky.social/post/3lqvmo6hbdc2f |
| 03:10:10 | | Umbire (Umbire) joins |
| 03:55:32 | | Guest58 joins |
| 04:07:51 | | etnguyen03 quits [Remote host closed the connection] |
| 04:33:47 | | flotwig quits [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] |
| 04:50:05 | | flotwig joins |
| 05:38:25 | | Guest58 quits [Client Quit] |
| 05:49:16 | | Umbire quits [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] |
| 05:53:37 | | Umbire (Umbire) joins |
| 06:22:02 | | DogsRNice quits [Read error: Connection reset by peer] |
| 06:24:55 | | Guest58 joins |
| 06:32:28 | | icedice quits [Quit: Leaving] |
| 06:35:36 | | Guest58 quits [Client Quit] |
| 06:37:02 | | Guest58 joins |
| 07:26:23 | | terry quits [] |
| 07:53:34 | | HackMii quits [Remote host closed the connection] |
| 07:53:59 | | HackMii (hacktheplanet) joins |
| 08:04:39 | | Guest58 quits [Client Quit] |
| 08:21:45 | | Dada joins |
| 08:30:38 | | NotGLaDOS joins |
| 08:53:45 | | Guest58 joins |
| 09:36:53 | | that_lurker quits [Remote host closed the connection] |
| 09:36:57 | | that_lurker (that_lurker) joins |
| 09:55:23 | | MrMcNuggets quits [Quit: WeeChat 4.3.2] |
| 09:59:33 | | APOLLO03 quits [Quit: Leaving] |
| 10:28:29 | | APOLLO03 joins |
| 10:32:28 | | APOLLO03 quits [Client Quit] |
| 10:43:30 | | Guest58 quits [Client Quit] |
| 10:48:31 | | Umbire quits [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] |
| 10:49:18 | | Umbire (Umbire) joins |
| 10:50:59 | | Guest58 joins |
| 11:00:03 | | Bleo182600722719623455 quits [Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat] |
| 11:02:46 | | Bleo182600722719623455 joins |
| 11:07:11 | | balrog quits [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] |
| 11:10:24 | | balrog (balrog) joins |
| 11:21:45 | <steering> | nicolas17: because you can't download a car |
| 11:22:46 | <steering> | (also just buy it used for like $200 lol) |
| 11:22:59 | <katia> | just don't buy a car |
| 11:30:33 | <steering> | spoken like someone who lives in NL :P |
| 11:45:21 | | APOLLO03 joins |
| 12:02:07 | <joepie91|m> | you could have this where you live too :p |
| 12:02:22 | <steering> | lol |
| 12:03:25 | <steering> | there's actually decent public transit where I live as far as what's feasible, including the fact that my entire city is walkable and there are buses to other nearby cities, like the big city 1.5h away |
| 12:05:38 | <steering> | but given that there's only 3000 people in town, and 14,000 in the county (8000km2), and almost everyone drives, what's feasible isn't much |
| 12:09:21 | | katia hugs joepie91|m |
| 12:11:47 | <joepie91|m> | 3000 people is a pretty typical size for towns in NL |
| 12:12:09 | <joepie91|m> | smaller populations do limit public transit options somewhat, but probably not as much as you'd expect |
| 12:13:11 | <joepie91|m> | not in the least because roads are, on a per-mile basis, far more expensive than transit |
| 12:13:13 | <joepie91|m> | (and the maintenance cost of roads scales with usage, so "the roads are needed anyway" also doesn't affect this as much as you might expect) |
| 12:13:46 | <steering> | ah yes, we should all go to the big city at only 1 or 2 times a day :) |
| 12:14:14 | <joepie91|m> | not to mention that transit is usually a financial net positive even in relatively low-density areas.... through indirect benefits |
| 12:14:32 | <joepie91|m> | not sure what you're trying to say there |
| 12:15:20 | <steering> | that it's not feasible to run service anywhere near regularly enough |
| 12:15:38 | <steering> | BTW, population density of NL is over 200x |
| 12:15:38 | <joepie91|m> | doubtful, for all the reasons described above |
| 12:15:38 | <steering> | so |
| 12:15:43 | <steering> | yeah, definitely typical lmao |
| 12:15:58 | <joepie91|m> | population density of a country tells you absolutely nothing |
| 12:15:58 | <steering> | the randstad alone has 8m in similar area |
| 12:16:03 | <joepie91|m> | when you're talking about transit |
| 12:16:24 | <steering> | okie dokie |
| 12:16:27 | <joepie91|m> | like, there's just no relation between national population density and transit economics, at all |
| 12:17:02 | <steering> | okie dokie |
| 12:17:54 | <steering> | I mean, if you can't see how the population being 200x as dense has anything to do with your claim that the typical town in NL has similar size and remoteness, then there's really nothing to talk about here |
| 12:18:08 | <joepie91|m> | look, if you want so badly to find reasons why it "cannot work" then I'm sure you will find one, as is true for just about anything. can't convince someone who has already made up their mind. but that has very little to do with what's actually possible in reality, this is not some novel concept where we don't understand the economics, the economics of transit are abundantly clear and the bar for making it work is extremely low |
| 12:18:52 | <joepie91|m> | also, I'm really not interested in 'common sense' arguments |
| 12:19:12 | <joepie91|m> | I deal in data, not gut feelings |
| 12:20:08 | | arch quits [Remote host closed the connection] |
| 12:20:17 | | arch (arch) joins |
| 12:20:39 | <joepie91|m> | ("the typical town in NL has similar size and remoteness" is not a claim I have ever made, by the way) |
| 12:28:09 | <steering> | < steering> but given that there's only 3000 people in town, and 14,000 in the county (8000km2), and almost everyone drives, what's feasible isn't much |
| 12:28:13 | <steering> | < joepie91|m> 3000 people is a pretty typical size for towns in NL |
| 12:28:56 | <steering> | Indeed, you can't convince someone who has already made up their mind, which is frankly why i should never have enabled HIDDEN here to begin with, I'm beginning to remember why you're on there. |
| 12:29:00 | <steering> | o/ |
| 12:41:41 | | @imer quits [Quit: Oh no] |
| 12:43:15 | <joepie91|m> | the message you quoted is missing solidly half of what you claimed I said, but hey, whatever right |
| 12:45:42 | <joepie91|m> | it's certainly much easier to argue against a strawman |
| 12:53:51 | | etnguyen03 (etnguyen03) joins |
| 13:04:30 | | imer (imer) joins |
| 13:04:30 | | @ChanServ sets mode: +o imer |
| 13:39:00 | | etnguyen03 quits [Client Quit] |
| 13:41:30 | | Umbire quits [Client Quit] |
| 15:24:13 | | grill (grill) joins |
| 15:43:45 | | etnguyen03 (etnguyen03) joins |
| 17:33:59 | | lunax (lunax) joins |
| 17:46:49 | <@JAA> | We've made public transport work just fine here in the Alps. That's low density and difficult terrain. There isn't a village that you can't reach (normally by bus) at least a few times daily. The only significant exception I can think of are places that are only inhabited in the warm season; you can't get there in winter, but there's also nobody there in winter. |
| 17:49:41 | | grill quits [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] |
| 17:51:32 | | grill (grill) joins |
| 18:28:03 | | MrMcNuggets (MrMcNuggets) joins |
| 18:28:19 | | xkey quits [Quit: WeeChat 4.4.3] |
| 18:50:29 | | qw3rty__ quits [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] |
| 19:04:20 | | IDK quits [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] |
| 19:05:41 | | xkey (xkey) joins |
| 19:08:17 | | xkey quits [Client Quit] |
| 19:08:26 | | xkey (xkey) joins |
| 19:13:58 | | xkey quits [Client Quit] |
| 19:14:09 | | xkey (xkey) joins |
| 19:21:16 | | grill quits [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] |
| 19:55:08 | | BornOn420 quits [Remote host closed the connection] |
| 19:55:48 | | BornOn420 (BornOn420) joins |
| 20:06:10 | | lurk3r quits [Quit: leaving] |
| 20:11:40 | <steering> | oh hey look switzerland is #35 in privately owned vehicles per capita |
| 20:18:59 | <katia> | hi steering (Sponsor Disclaimer: Sponsored by Big Car) |
| 20:27:59 | <@JAA> | Most people not living in the Alps affects that stat a little. |
| 20:42:30 | | archiveDrill quits [Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat] |
| 20:48:08 | <trix> | steering: look at luxembourg ;w; |
| 21:30:33 | | archiveDrill joins |
| 21:58:20 | | Dada quits [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] |
| 22:08:06 | <nukke> | I don't understand this mentality tbh |
| 22:08:10 | <nukke> | Having a car is awesome |
| 22:08:45 | <trix> | having a car is expensive and i also dont want to be forced to commute via car |
| 22:08:53 | <trix> | but having a car can be awesome otherwise yes |
| 22:09:02 | <nukke> | Literally the *only* downside is gas cost, but that's only an issue in California or Europe |
| 22:09:15 | <nukke> | Sorry, "petrol" |
| 22:09:41 | <@imer> | for the german speaking people here, regarding yt auto translations (since I complained about that the other day): https://old.reddit.com/r/de/comments/1l5l9u7/fick_dich_youtube_und_deine_drecks_ai%C3%BCbersetzung/ |
| 22:13:01 | <katia> | nukke, cars stink |
| 22:13:12 | <katia> | not that you'd know in the stench you drag around with you... |
| 22:15:17 | <nukke> | I'd take a smokey car over a stinky sweaty cyclist any day |
| 22:15:50 | <nulldata> | There's nothing quite like popping open a cold Brawndo and going on a long road trip in a lifted gas guzzling truck - all while rolling coal in any populated neighborhood to show off just how cool you truly are. |
| 22:15:51 | <nukke> | gross cyclist arriving go work with huge armpit stains 🤢🤮 |
| 22:16:05 | <katia> | girls don't stink nukke |
| 22:17:49 | <nukke> | ha! |
| 22:27:34 | | Hackerpcs quits [Quit: Hackerpcs] |
| 22:30:49 | <@JAA> | The amount of noise in cities or near freeways just because cars... |
| 22:31:14 | <@JAA> | There are significant health effects as well that just get ignored by most people. |
| 22:31:57 | | Hackerpcs (Hackerpcs) joins |
| 22:34:39 | <@JAA> | Not to mention the climate impact, especially all the people riding alone. |
| 22:39:47 | <nicolas17> | I vaguely remember a comparison of the most efficient electric cars with the least efficient non-electric trains, and the train still emitted less CO2 per person transported as soon as you had like 10 people in it |
| 22:40:16 | <nicolas17> | now imagine the average electric train with the average gasoline car |
| 22:40:54 | <nicolas17> | or having 100 people in the train |
| 22:47:56 | <@JAA> | Yeah, trains are extremely efficient. Plus regenerative breaking. |
| 22:57:48 | <trix> | those are all fair things, but also a shitbox sounds about as painful and fun as working on computer |
| 22:58:28 | <steering> | Like I said, we actually have pretty decent public transit here, including both buses and trains. But when the places that everyone wants to go is 1.5h away, you can't run buses all that frequently, which means that it ends up taking 2-3 hours each way because you have to wait for the bus, so now your 4-5 hour trip has become 7-8 hours, and of course everyone already owns a car and we already |
| 22:58:34 | <steering> | have the roads built and maintenance paid for by the federal government... |
| 23:01:26 | <steering> | the cost of maintaining a road isn't anywhere near proportional to the usage of that road, and the cost of running transit is also related to the number of people using it, so the fact that the cost is higher for roads with more use is completely and totally irrelevant (unlike the density and remoteness) |
| 23:04:35 | <steering> | frankly, as someone who has ridden the public transit in 3 major european cities, at least 5 major US cities, and mexico city, in addition to having lived in the US my whole life, having survived with no method of transportation other than my feet and a bicycle for 5 years as a working adult, and actually being interested in this stuff... not to mention almost certainly being the only one here |
| 23:04:41 | <steering> | who lives in Montana... I'd say I'm a lot better suited to say what kind of public transit is feasible here. |
| 23:07:06 | <trix> | i see car not really as method of transport ig |
| 23:07:24 | <trix> | or rather, it is, but i wouldn't use it as such |
| 23:14:02 | <steering> | (pretty decent public transit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_Builder and https://northern.rural-transit.com/) |
| 23:34:20 | | lemuria quits [Quit: all is well] |
| 23:36:29 | <TheTechRobo> | nicolas17: What type of energy were the electric cars in that comparison being charged with, out of curiosity? |
| 23:39:03 | <nicolas17> | I heard of it second hand and don't remember the details, but I think they used the US's average electricity generation or something like that |
| 23:39:26 | <nicolas17> | when comparing electric car vs electric train that would kinda cancel out anyway |
| 23:40:01 | <TheTechRobo> | Ah, right |
| 23:46:13 | | lemuria (lemuria) joins |