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| 00:09:26 | <ctag> | That's kinda neat that they make linux isos available at the conference, in case anyone needs to reinstall. |
| 00:09:30 | <ctag> | I've been there. |
| 00:12:24 | <fireonlive> | indeed! |
| 00:18:13 | | qwertyasdfuiopghjkl (qwertyasdfuiopghjkl) joins |
| 00:23:40 | <Terbium> | huh, i thought archivebot was based on wpull which supports FTP |
| 00:24:27 | <fireonlive> | not sure on the full details but bigger ones lead to crashes |
| 00:43:10 | <@JAA> | > To compensate for this cheating I decided to use the slowest language on the planet, Python (thanks to the visionary genius of Ross van der Gussom). |
| 00:43:13 | <@JAA> | lol |
| 00:43:45 | <nicolas17> | source? |
| 00:43:51 | <@JAA> | Terbium: Literally any error on retrieval, including timeouts or whatever, crash the entire process. |
| 00:44:13 | <@JAA> | nicolas17: See nukke's link. |
| 00:44:19 | <nicolas17> | ah |
| 00:44:39 | <Terbium> | JAA: hmmmmm I see (secretly planning to rip out FTP support entirely from wpull) |
| 00:45:15 | <@JAA> | Terbium: https://github.com/ArchiveTeam/wpull/issues?q=is%3Aopen%20is%3Aissue%20project%3Aarchiveteam%2Fwpull%2F3 |
| 00:45:34 | <project10> | Terbium: https://c.tenor.com/pO0TcsNV6DoAAAAC/tenor.gif |
| 00:45:36 | <Terbium> | *deletes ftp.py*, probably solved |
| 00:45:49 | | @JAA throws an ImportError at Terbium. |
| 00:47:02 | <Terbium> | Your mere ImportErrors don't faze me any longer muhahaha. I've been fighting the broken unit tests in wpull for a whole week |
| 00:47:37 | <@JAA> | :-) |
| 00:52:11 | <fireonlive> | but but my precious |
| 00:52:25 | <fireonlive> | 🥺 |
| 00:53:31 | <fireonlive> | but maybe it’s time >_> |
| 01:02:17 | <fireonlive> | https://x.com/samlymatters/status/1739848773105340424?s=12 |
| 01:02:18 | <eggdrop> | nitter: https://nitter.net/samlymatters/status/1739848773105340424 |
| 01:08:22 | <nulldata> | https://thenewstack.io/merchants-of-complexity-why-37signals-abandoned-the-cloud/ |
| 01:09:08 | <nukke> | https://news.slashdot.org/story/23/12/27/2126224/what-comes-after-open-source-bruce-perens-is-working-on-it |
| 01:10:43 | <Terbium> | lol, DHHs face in the banner image |
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| 01:18:16 | <@JAA> | nulldata: Oh wow, that outlet is brave. They're not calling it 'X (formerly Twitter)'. |
| 01:18:53 | <ctag> | My favorite has been "ExTwitter", two birds with one dis |
| 01:18:58 | <@JAA> | Nice |
| 01:20:52 | | Mateon2 joins |
| 01:20:55 | <ctag> | I'm interested in hosting a mirror of a wordpress blog who's owner passed away, but I don't know how to crawl it to capture all of the pages. Not asking to be spoonfed (I hope) but if anyone could point me toward resources or recommendations I'd appreciate it. |
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| 01:21:20 | | Mateon2 is now known as Mateon1 |
| 01:21:56 | <nukke> | ctag: do you have access to the admin/webmin page? |
| 01:22:09 | <ctag> | I do not |
| 01:24:16 | <nukke> | I just asked chatgpt and it gave me this: https://pastebin.com/raw/ERzwefPp |
| 01:25:16 | <ctag> | Thanks nukke, will give it a try. |
| 01:26:02 | <@JAA> | And as usual, ChatGPT produces subtle rubbish. |
| 01:26:08 | <@JAA> | --domains takes a list of domains, not URLs. |
| 01:26:37 | <@JAA> | Also, if you're comfortable with sharing the URL, we can run it through ArchiveBot to get it into the Wayback Machine. |
| 01:27:33 | <@JAA> | The command there also omits following the sitemaps, disabling robots, fetching offsite images (which already breaks on wordpress.com-hosted blogs), etc. |
| 01:28:12 | <Terbium> | I love WordPress! (not) |
| 01:28:15 | <@JAA> | Don't use ChatGPT for anything other than entertainment. It's worse than following the average StackOverflow advice. |
| 01:28:50 | | fireonlive uses ChatJAA |
| 01:28:56 | <@JAA> | I love WordPress as far as archival goes. Easily the most cooperative CMS out there. |
| 01:29:20 | <@JAA> | Good sitemaps, little to no noise in the HTML, etc. |
| 01:29:37 | <@JAA> | wp-json API to fetch content in machine-readable form, too. |
| 01:29:48 | <Terbium> | From the sites I archive, people add tons of plugins that clutter the crawl tree by generating tons and tons of URLs |
| 01:30:29 | <Terbium> | from infinite recursions, randomly generated query params, infinite pagination. People add everything to their WP sites |
| 01:30:37 | <@JAA> | Yeah, there are very annoying plugins, e.g. ai1ec calendars. |
| 01:30:42 | <@JAA> | WordPress itself is solid though. |
| 01:31:00 | <Terbium> | why can they just use .html files? |
| 01:31:04 | <Terbium> | the good old days |
| 01:31:10 | <Terbium> | cant* |
| 01:31:31 | <ctag> | I tried grabbing warcs initially, but then didn't know how to use them |
| 01:31:35 | <ctag> | The URL is https://lithiumcreations.com/ |
| 01:31:41 | <@JAA> | Funnily enough, some people are returning to that with Hugo, Jekyll, etc. on GitHub Pages et al. |
| 01:32:13 | <@JAA> | ctag: Yeah, it's not very useful for hosting a mirror. You *could* use something like pywb, but it'd be a huge headache. |
| 01:32:15 | <ctag> | I wish I understood/liked those static generators, would use it for my own blog |
| 01:32:23 | <Terbium> | ctag: for WARCs you need a replay tool such as pywb |
| 01:32:40 | <@JAA> | For local playback for yourself, pywb is perfectly suitable. |
| 01:33:01 | <ctag> | Thanks. yeah, I got lost in trying to figure out how to get pywb to only present pages, and not just all the files smashed together |
| 01:33:33 | <ctag> | Or to let you search for only pages? Something, it's been a minute |
| 01:34:13 | <@JAA> | Yeah, it will index all URLs, and it has to for proper playback. |
| 01:34:22 | <@JAA> | I've thrown it into AB. |
| 01:34:31 | <@JAA> | Should be in the WBM in at most a couple days. |
| 01:34:36 | <Terbium> | you mean removing the file index and URL query pages? I think you can turn those off |
| 01:34:55 | <Terbium> | and then point the default path to the homepage, that way end users don't see the pywb controls and interface |
| 01:35:17 | <ctag> | Hrm, I'll have to revisit it. Thanks Terbium |
| 01:35:23 | <ctag> | Thanks JAA |
| 01:35:55 | <@JAA> | (I understood it as removing anything non-HTML from the queried URL lists so you can search but don't get matches on images etc.) |
| 01:36:33 | <Terbium> | oh, hmm, I don't think it supports that currently |
| 01:37:15 | <@JAA> | No, don't think so either. It shouldn't be incredibly hard to add a text/html MIME type filter somewhere, but it'd require getting your hands dirty for sure. |
| 01:40:20 | <ctag> | I appreciate the site being sent to WBM, but I'm going to still try and tinker to get it hosted on my home server. |
| 01:40:45 | <@JAA> | :-) |
| 01:41:18 | <ctag> | I've also wanted to generally get involved with archiveteam for a while and see if I could make my computer useful. I have about 10TiB spare storage and (soon) 5gbps fiber. |
| 01:41:26 | <@JAA> | It'd also be neat if there were a tool for converting WARC to static files. Shouldn't be terribly difficult to build in theory. In practice, it's a bit of a mess. |
| 01:41:37 | <ctag> | That would be awesome |
| 01:41:56 | <ctag> | Web archiving seemed like a huge rats nest last time I tried to learn about it. I blame javascript. |
| 01:42:59 | <Terbium> | Should be able to do with warcio, to extract the data chunk from each record |
| 01:44:11 | | @JAA slaps Terbium around a bit with a large trout |
| 01:44:23 | <Terbium> | I mentioned the forbidden word :P |
| 01:44:28 | <@JAA> | :-) |
| 01:44:41 | <@JAA> | Then again, pywb is also that, so... |
| 01:45:00 | <@JAA> | (Just don't write any WARCs with warcio please.) |
| 01:45:52 | <Terbium> | hmmmmmm (looks at stash of WARCs called warcio_output) |
| 01:46:46 | <Terbium> | *prepares for excommunication* |
| 01:48:18 | <@JAA> | Did you create those before or after you heard about warcio being bad? |
| 01:48:32 | | @JAA grabs a rusty knife just in case. |
| 01:48:56 | <Terbium> | *runs and hides* |
| 01:49:34 | <@JAA> | We used warcio in past DPoS projects. That was before we knew about its awful bugs. |
| 01:49:55 | <Terbium> | in all seriousness, I have the original WARCs prior to any warcio processing |
| 01:50:51 | <@JAA> | Ah, good :-) |
| 01:51:02 | <Terbium> | I have a ingestion service based on warcio to aggregate, dedupe, and filter WARCs |
| 01:51:03 | <@JAA> | (We don't for those DPoS projects.) |
| 01:51:50 | <Terbium> | Didn't want to spend time writing on own WARC reader and writer login :P |
| 01:52:27 | <@JAA> | Yeah, I've been working on a new WARC implementation. Maybe I'll have time in Jan to finish that. |
| 01:53:25 | <Terbium> | I wonder if anyone else already wrote their own WARC libaries that just aren't public, sure would be useful |
| 01:53:41 | <@JAA> | Yay, more broken code. :-P |
| 01:53:42 | <fireonlive> | warcio :O |
| 01:53:59 | <Terbium> | WARC/1.2 anyone? |
| 01:54:05 | <@JAA> | WARC has so many edges and corners, it's quite ridiculous that made it through the ISO process. |
| 01:54:07 | <Terbium> | or go straight to WARC2 ? |
| 01:54:15 | <fireonlive> | edges eh :3 |
| 01:54:25 | <@JAA> | https://transfer.archivete.am/inline/wsbt9/bonk.webp |
| 01:54:40 | <@JAA> | I specifically prepared that one for you a few days ago. :-P |
| 01:55:18 | <Terbium> | all these new javascript sites makes a lot of the WARC replay broken sadly |
| 01:55:26 | <fireonlive> | :D |
| 01:55:50 | <Terbium> | I blame Brendan Eich |
| 01:55:51 | <fireonlive> | animated webp :3 |
| 01:56:03 | <nicolas17> | fireonlive: bonk |
| 01:56:13 | <fireonlive> | 😵💫 |
| 01:56:22 | <Terbium> | Animated webp? Time for animated AVIF |
| 01:56:37 | <TheTechRobo> | Next up there will be animated GIFs... oh wait |
| 01:56:40 | <@JAA> | Most things can be added in a backward-compatible manner, so that'd point towards 1.2. But fixing the errors and inconsistencies in the spec would not. Then again, the 1.0 to 1.1 transition also wasn't entirely backwards-compatible. |
| 01:56:53 | <@JAA> | Animated PNG anyone? |
| 01:57:13 | <Terbium> | we'll create our own WARC spec called JAAWARC |
| 01:57:22 | <TheTechRobo> | JAA: for backward incompatibility, are you referring to the angle brackets? |
| 01:58:16 | <nicolas17> | ok google how do I clean blood spatters from walls |
| 01:58:30 | <TheTechRobo> | (Also, is this off topic?) |
| 01:58:44 | <Terbium> | yeah, you're in -ot |
| 01:58:45 | <fireonlive> | the only WARC that’s compliant: JAAWARC |
| 01:58:56 | <TheTechRobo> | Terbium: I mean the conversation :P |
| 01:59:04 | <@JAA> | TheTechRobo: Yes |
| 01:59:15 | <@JAA> | Yeah, the conversation is off-off-topic. |
| 01:59:34 | <nicolas17> | (it's easy to remove the blood, it's not as easy to do so while leaving the paint unaffected) |
| 01:59:39 | <TheTechRobo> | At this point JAA should just draft up a new warc spec :P |
| 02:00:32 | <fireonlive> | like whatwg to w3? |
| 02:00:33 | <@JAA> | I wouldn't even be entirely opposed to that. I've been meaning to get more involved in the process. But only 24 hours in a day. |
| 02:01:32 | <TheTechRobo> | I wonder if we should have a channel specifically for the woes of WARC. |
| 02:01:46 | <@JAA> | Hmm, #memes then? |
| 02:01:56 | <TheTechRobo> | :P |
| 02:02:21 | <Terbium> | archiveteam-rants ? |
| 02:04:13 | <TheTechRobo> | Do we know what common crawl uses to write warcs? |
| 02:04:24 | <@JAA> | WARC? More like #waargh... |
| 02:06:01 | <Terbium> | TheTechRobo: looks like they use custom Java code |
| 02:07:37 | <Terbium> | they also have a fork of warcio *gasp* |
| 02:08:00 | <TheTechRobo> | How many years is that |
| 02:08:09 | <@JAA> | Oof |
| 02:08:13 | <TheTechRobo> | (In jail) |
| 02:08:48 | <Terbium> | no commits to it: https://github.com/commoncrawl/warcio/tree/master |
| 02:08:53 | <Terbium> | i guess they don't use it? |
| 02:09:45 | <Terbium> | this is their main tool i think: https://github.com/commoncrawl/nutch |
| 02:09:52 | <Terbium> | modded version of nutch |
| 02:10:24 | <Terbium> | the record writer: https://github.com/commoncrawl/nutch/blob/f3f948ea530851ba241d2c92dcd1dfe9938373f7/src/java/org/commoncrawl/util/WarcRecordWriter.java |
| 02:10:49 | <Terbium> | we need to find this guy: https://github.com/sebastian-nagel |
| 02:11:22 | <Terbium> | hmm, maybe I should migrate to their Nutch fork |
| 02:11:29 | <@JAA> | Oh no, they construct the HTTP headers from parsed key-value it seems. |
| 02:11:51 | <fireonlive> | :o so 2x headers are clobbered? |
| 02:11:51 | <Terbium> | JAA ready to find and imprison Sebastian Nagel in Germany |
| 02:12:11 | <@JAA> | Hmm, there's verbatimRequestHeaders as well. Weird. |
| 02:12:33 | <nicolas17> | does python-requests preserve headers well enough that I can construct a WARC response record from a requests.Response object? |
| 02:12:39 | <@JAA> | https://github.com/commoncrawl/nutch/blob/f3f948ea530851ba241d2c92dcd1dfe9938373f7/src/java/org/commoncrawl/util/WarcRecordWriter.java#L647 |
| 02:12:42 | <@JAA> | *twitch* |
| 02:12:59 | <Terbium> | hehe |
| 02:13:21 | <@JAA> | https://github.com/commoncrawl/nutch/blob/f3f948ea530851ba241d2c92dcd1dfe9938373f7/src/java/org/commoncrawl/util/WarcRecordWriter.java#L660 |
| 02:13:32 | <@JAA> | So I guess it'll write a reconstructed thing when a broken server sends LF line endings. |
| 02:13:45 | <fireonlive> | o.o |
| 02:14:02 | <@JAA> | Anyway, not in the mood to continue this investigation. |
| 02:14:12 | <fireonlive> | fair enough |
| 02:15:20 | <Terbium> | JAA has been traumatized enough in one day |
| 02:15:31 | <@JAA> | Sebastian Nagel lives on the border to Switzerland according to his GitHub profile. I can pay him a visit if needed... ;-) |
| 02:15:43 | <fireonlive> | ;) |
| 02:15:45 | <Terbium> | and kick his door in |
| 02:16:04 | <fireonlive> | "archiveteam core, open up!" |
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| 02:31:12 | <nicolas17> | https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/27/india-apple-iphone-hacking |
| 02:31:18 | <nicolas17> | "A day after Apple warned independent Indian journalists and opposition party politicians in October that government hackers may have tried to break into their iPhones, officials under Prime Minister Narendra Modi promptly took action — against Apple." |
| 02:31:38 | <fireonlive> | .. |
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| 02:33:35 | <@JAA> | There was a 37C3 talk about that apparently. Need to watch still. |
| 02:33:57 | <@JAA> | (Assuming it's the same thing, but it was massive vulnerabilities from what I've read.) |
| 02:35:23 | <pabs> | https://www.theregister.com/2023/12/27/bruce_perens_post_open/ |
| 02:41:16 | | @JAA just remembered he started a `zstd --long=31 --ultra -22` process on 4 GiB of NULs earlier. It's been running for 13 hours now, and I have no idea how far it is. lol |
| 02:42:23 | <@JAA> | The regular run without those crazy option took 2.5 seconds, for comparison. |
| 02:42:59 | <@JAA> | I'll let it run for science. |
| 02:47:50 | <Terbium> | lol, that is quite some time |
| 02:51:57 | <fireonlive> | :D |
| 03:29:52 | <TheTechRobo> | JAA: how much did the regular run compress down to? |
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| 11:47:38 | <@JAA> | Wow... |
| 11:48:12 | <@JAA> | `time dd if=/dev/zero bs=4M count=1024 | zstd --long=31 | wc -c`: 12.3 seconds, compressed it to 391183 bytes |
| 11:48:28 | <@JAA> | `time dd if=/dev/zero bs=4M count=1024 | zstd --long=31 --ultra -22 | wc -c`: 1274m46.844s, compressed it to 430070 bytes |
| 11:48:31 | <@JAA> | lol |
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| 14:39:59 | <project10> | JAA: no good deed goes unpunished :) |
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| 14:51:52 | <Terbium> | it might be to do with zstd stream size estimation |
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| 17:46:53 | <thuban> | trying to track down an academic publication. find the conference's old website... which refers me to the conference's new website... which on its front page suggests that i join its yahoo group. bodes ill |
| 17:50:01 | <thuban> | "The only Proceeding unfortunately not yet digitized." augh |
| 17:55:11 | <thuban> | i'll have to get it through _interlibrary loan_ :I |
| 17:57:55 | <@JAA> | Digitise it! :-) |
| 17:59:04 | <thuban> | i want to! but i have to fix my scanner first... |
| 17:59:36 | <@JAA> | Ah yes |
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| 20:06:40 | <fireonlive> | https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/18su2vl/unlimited_storage_for_16month_you_say/ |
| 20:06:45 | <fireonlive> | aw shit, here we go again |
| 20:10:01 | <that_lurker> | So if you store all your porn in Jira as tickets you can effectively also organize it easily |
| 20:11:11 | <fireonlive> | true! |
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| 20:26:49 | <Terbium> | someone's going to make a fuse driver and rclone module for JiraFS this week |
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| 20:31:04 | <fireonlive> | :D |
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| 20:38:40 | <@JAA> | Terbium: I mean... https://github.com/coddingtonbear/jirafs |
| 20:42:08 | <Terbium> | perfect, I can use it to store WARCs that come in from my pipeline |
| 20:42:20 | <Terbium> | Thank you Atlassian for the bountiful storage |
| 20:46:12 | <ctag> | Back at my last company Atlassian products couldn't even deliver on the normal stuff. I wouldn't trust them for data retention for a second. |
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| 22:04:27 | <fireonlive> | https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/18sp6xv/need_some_ideas_of_where_to_start_on_this_to_save/ |
| 22:04:34 | <fireonlive> | thievery++ |
| 22:04:34 | <eggdrop> | [karma] 'thievery' now has 1 karma! |
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| 22:50:15 | <fireonlive> | fun fact: if you typo /dev/sda it spells /dev/sad which is what i am rn |
| 22:50:33 | <pabs> | :/ |
| 22:54:26 | <nicolas17> | use /dev/disk/by-id to reduce chance of accidents |
| 22:55:13 | <pabs> | or a GUI that shows you drive type/model/company/size/etc too :) |
| 22:55:23 | <@JAA> | Eww, GUI |
| 22:56:04 | <pabs> | gnome-disks is pretty damn good, much less chance of mistakes than manual stuff |
| 22:58:07 | <Barto> | we all know that 'dd' stands for disk destroyer |
| 22:58:15 | <Terbium> | what happened to your sda? |
| 22:58:51 | <Barto> | (more on a serious tone, no dd stands for convert and copy, but cc was already taken) |
| 23:01:30 | <fireonlive> | just zeroing it out before a redeploy |
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