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00:09:49tbc1887 (tbc1887) joins
00:11:37<Doranwen>I think the manner of speech is more of the problem: "I'm concerned about person X's actions because of {how they'll impact archiving or something related}" is totally legit "politics" discussion, but "Person Y is a {insert derogatory label here}" is not conducive to useful discussion; for one thing, depending on who it is, not everyone may agree with the label (and I've seen such labels used in a "this person isn't worth listening to,
00:11:39<Doranwen>so we'll call them this name and then everyone knows to be against them" way; the label might or might not be accurate), and even if they do, it invites an unpleasant tone to the discussion
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09:35:59<@arkiver>This discussion on politics and Archive Team is good to have! Thank you joepie91|m immibis icedice OrIdow6 spirit seefoe Doranwen .
09:39:28<@arkiver>I wrote down a text about this, it can be found at https://transfer.archivete.am/NzLSU/message.txt
09:40:19<@JAA>For direct reading without a download: https://transfer.archivete.am/inline/NzLSU/message.txt
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11:20:34<Barto>i have the impression that all of this started because i made fun of Elon, once again oops
11:43:24<immibis>Elon deserves to be made fun of and any space where you can't make fun of Elon (except because it's OT but this is the OT channel so it's not) is a space I don't want to be in
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11:49:35<Barto>:-)
12:15:18<icedice>When you see a clown, it's only natural to laugh
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17:25:15<FireFly>checks out
17:39:39<fireonlive>as life's clown, I can corroborate that statement
17:42:07<Barto>there's a discord i'm in, a section there is named #comedy_and_politics with the following description: "Is there really any difference anymore?"
17:44:45<fireonlive>life is like a box of chocolates; except someone's replaced every piece with cow dung
17:50:01<andrew>Barto: the comedy is less funny when you realize that there are real-world consequences...
17:51:34<andrew>speaking of which, is there anything to archive in the very unlikely event that the US is forced to default on its debt?
17:52:26<@JAA>*.gov?
17:52:58<@JAA>IA does that regularly anyway though.
17:54:24<andrew>maybe also all the big and small banks and other financial institutions?
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19:09:24<icedice>Social media accounts of high level bank execs in case there's some foreshadowing there when the next bank fails lol
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19:39:43<CrispyAlice2>All the articles about trillion dollar coins
19:40:39<immibis>andrew: the IA. It can't exist without dollars
19:40:57<immibis>also the entire USA
19:59:26<Barto>maybe this https://www.usdebtclock.org/ lol
20:00:09<Barto>andrew: right. this discord is mostly about cyberpunk and dystopic stuffs, so there's that.
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20:41:28<@JAA>(From #shreddit)
20:41:30<fireonlive>best i can do is a couple hundred Mbps down and .... lik 20Mbps up
20:41:37<fireonlive>mmmm asymetric
20:41:41<@JAA>fuzzy8021: Yup, it does here, FTTH at 25G symmetric.
20:42:01<fuzzy8021>nice
20:42:20<@JAA>Not too expensive either, and the ISP is excellent.
20:43:04<@JAA>I guess you can't constantly saturate the 25G link, but I never had any issues with their 1G offer back when I had it, including at the busiest times etc.
20:43:15<fuzzy8021>density helps
20:43:44<@JAA>They're a smaller ISP around here, highly active in policy stuff as well, e.g. net neutrality.
20:44:26<fuzzy8021>all the fiber "shared" around there isnt it?
20:44:46<fuzzy8021>any isp can use it for a price
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20:45:04<threedeeitguy>1g symmetric for less than £35 a month here. 10gb is available but that's £250 :p
20:45:19<fireonlive>oh, awesome
20:46:13<fireonlive>i'm in the multiple hundreds of dollars a month just for internet :/
20:46:50<@JAA>I don't remember all the details, but I believe they usually lay 4 fibres here with one reserved for the major ISP (who also funds a chunk of the construction work). The others then use the other three I think, or maybe some are kept dark for future expansion.
20:47:41<fuzzy8021>gotcha
20:48:42<@JAA>Some older deployments had only one fibre, and there it's a mess. But that's rare by now.
20:49:27<fireonlive>wonder if they put in some of that lovely conduit so you can shoot stuff down there later
20:50:17<@JAA>The ISP I'm talking about is CHF 64.75/mo for 1G, 10G, or 25G, depending on what's available at your location (and with a higher setup cost for 25G due to optics).
20:50:37<@JAA>~€66 or £58
20:51:10<@JAA>Oh, they actually discontinued their 1G offer by now. Too slow. :-P
20:51:30<fuzzy8021>lol
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20:52:07<@JAA>And since there was chat about IP prices earlier, you can rent a /29 for CHF 60/mo.
20:53:18<@JAA>Ah no, I looked in the wrong place, 1G still exists and is cheaper now.
20:53:20<threedeeitguy>im waiting for a ~2gb option from my isp. Was chatting to the tech while sorting the static and he mentioned its coming at a much more reasonable price than 10 which they really only want to sell to businesses.
20:53:51<andrew> I got my ISP to sell me a 2 gig plan that's not publicly advertised
20:55:13<@JAA>This ISP also lets you choose your router. They loan or sell some devices, but you can use whatever you want.
20:55:21<@JAA>Did I mention I'm a fan? :-)
20:55:35<andrew>I wish we could get something like Init7 :P
20:55:41<Terbium>I wish I could be my own ISP :P
20:56:26<@JAA>The router they sell for the 25G offer is only capable of 15G throughput. lol
20:56:37<fireonlive>lol
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20:58:35<ThreeHM>Wish I could get a symmetric connection, all the new installations here are asymmetric
20:58:52<ThreeHM>1g down, 200m up for 80€/mo :/
20:59:04<@JAA>Their new 1G offer has no free router choice and CGNAT. But that's fair for the significantly reduced price.
21:00:09<@JAA>(~25% cheaper)
21:00:58<@JAA>And the loaned router is a Fritz!Box 5530, which is fine.
21:24:06<andrew>a German friend used to frequently complain about his Fritz!Box
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21:27:28<@JAA>There are always things to complain about with any router, but my experience with it (5490? don't remember exactly) was decent, especially compared to the usual rubbish major ISPs provide. Not overwhelmingly great, but adequate.
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21:43:08<Barto>yeah, CH screwed up by letting that one isp roll out some multiplexed fiber. We lost years because of procedure of breaking a potential monopoly.
22:00:27<immibis>I understand that fiber is really really cheap compared to the price of digging holes and filling them back in - if anything, 4 seems like underkill
22:01:05<immibis>i was quoted $0.20 per meter for 2-pair fiber (just by walking into a store and asking, so that's probably more than what the professionals get)
22:04:17Doranwen frowns at computer which has suddenly quit having DNS working for it.
22:04:31<Doranwen>Like, my other comp is doing fine. Same network.
22:04:50<Doranwen>But this one, I can ping 8.8.8.8 with no trouble - but pinging google.com just goes nowhere.
22:05:20<Doranwen>So weird.
22:08:04<myself>oh yeah, glass is so cheap it's almost free, especially compared to semi-precious metals like copper. And it doesn't conduct lightning. And it doesn't care if a high-voltage line falls off a pole and touches it on the way down. And it's a lot lighter weight. And it's a lot smaller in terms of finished cable diameter.
22:08:48<myself>And it's worthless as scrap so meth-heads are less likely to try to strip it, unless they mistake it for copper.
22:14:54<fireonlive>i have seen signs saying 'NO COPPER IN THESE LINES' and such
22:31:18<@JAA>Meth head: sounds like something Big Copper would say.
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