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| 08:19:17 | <Doranwen> | I think something definitely went wrong in the manufacturing of this one set of hdds - I ordered three new ones of one type, and two of them had i/o errors trying to create a partition table and the third never showed up in the list at all |
| 08:20:20 | <Doranwen> | very frustrating considering I had shut down the whole tower and hauled it to where I could work on it to put the drive in - and I was *really* hoping to have a good drive that I could copy the data from my one backup back onto |
| 08:20:41 | <Doranwen> | a week later, still no good drive :P |
| 08:22:28 | <systwi_> | Jeesh; I'm sorry to hear you're having such bad luck with these drives. :-/ |
| 08:22:49 | <systwi_> | Well, better to notice issues on-arrival instead of 6 months into using it. |
| 08:23:06 | <systwi_> | Is there a possibility your cables/ports/etc. might be bad? |
| 08:23:20 | <Doranwen> | yeah, I'm like - am I cursed or something? I already had one drive fail upon arrival, now three more? |
| 08:23:38 | <Doranwen> | but they're all the same manufacturer and I think same type, possibly |
| 08:23:44 | <Doranwen> | so I'm betting this lot just didn't get made right |
| 08:23:52 | <systwi_> | (Sc)Amazon? :-P |
| 08:24:36 | <Doranwen> | no, ebay |
| 08:24:39 | <systwi_> | I wouldn't put it past myself that their employees are rough on fragile items. |
| 08:24:45 | <systwi_> | Ah, I see. |
| 08:24:48 | <Doranwen> | top rated seller, too *shrug* |
| 08:25:12 | <systwi_> | I suppose the same could apply (but to the shipping company instead, more likely). |
| 08:25:34 | <systwi_> | Huh, yeah, odd. :-( |
| 08:26:31 | <Doranwen> | I'd been buying Western Digital but I'm starting to wonder if I shouldn't switch to Seagate or something! |
| 08:26:47 | <systwi_> | Oh, Doranwen, have you checked the drives' warranties on WD's website? (I believe you said they were new WD disks) |
| 08:27:36 | <Doranwen> | I hadn't - I'm just returning them to the seller |
| 08:27:43 | <systwi_> | The disks you might be getting, while technically "new" (as in, sealed by WD), might be refurbished replacement units. I've had bad experiences with this before (was Newegg, technically). |
| 08:27:47 | <Doranwen> | free shipping back and I get my refund |
| 08:28:27 | <systwi_> | I'd say Hitachi but, well, not sure nowadays being that WD owns HGST. :-/ |
| 08:28:29 | <Doranwen> | these ones have fancy stickers on them that say Original, no idea |
| 08:28:46 | <systwi_> | Hmmm, would you happen to have a picture |
| 08:28:48 | <systwi_> | *? |
| 08:29:14 | <Doranwen> | not yet, lol, I was going to do that but I have to pull the last one out of the tower this comp runs on in order to take a photo of all three together |
| 08:29:28 | <Doranwen> | but first I figured I'd better order new drives since I really *do* need new ones - like four of them now |
| 08:29:34 | <Doranwen> | since I had four fail :P |
| 08:29:59 | <systwi_> | It would be best, I would say. |
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| 08:30:16 | <systwi_> | I'm sorry, I hope this all gets corrected soon. |
| 08:30:19 | <Doranwen> | so I'm trying to decide what to go for |
| 08:30:34 | <Doranwen> | try more WD and hope they're better, or switch to Seagate and hope they work… |
| 08:31:51 | <systwi_> | I typically stay away from Seagate, but I happened to find some used 6TB Exos drives for a price I couldn't refuse and, so far, they've felt pretty decent, and fast too. |
| 08:32:21 | <systwi_> | Oh, what models of WD disks were you buying? |
| 08:32:23 | <Doranwen> | yeah, I'd been advised not to go for them years ago, so I've mostly moved away from Seagate stuff, except where I got given one by accident |
| 08:32:34 | <systwi_> | ^ Hehehe :-P |
| 08:32:48 | <Doranwen> | WD4000FYYZ was the one I had fail so much |
| 08:32:50 | <systwi_> | "Given one by accident," I like that |
| 08:32:53 | <Doranwen> | I haven't even tried the 2 TB one |
| 08:33:12 | <Doranwen> | lol yeah, I think it was a case of a seller shipping me the wrong drive when I'd ordered larger ones and so I got to keep it? I honestly can't remember how I got this one drive |
| 08:33:50 | <systwi_> | I've seen these disks before at my workplace, and they've been pretty reliable from my experience, even with high amounts of power-on hours. |
| 08:34:20 | <systwi_> | I think they might be older disks, though. AFAIK WD's enterprise line consists of the Gold disks now. |
| 08:35:02 | <systwi_> | It's CMR which is good. |
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| 08:36:19 | <Doranwen> | the Gold ones are like three times the price, too |
| 08:36:30 | <Doranwen> | I can't afford to pay $150 per drive, lol |
| 08:36:49 | <systwi_> | Yeah, it's really expensive. :-/ I don't own any. |
| 08:37:04 | <systwi_> | I'm sorry, I forgot what you said about this before. Do you know what the manufacture dates are on any of the disks? |
| 08:37:57 | <systwi_> | Another question, is there a specific capacity you need? Would a new 4TB WD Black be acceptable? |
| 08:38:03 | <Doranwen> | March 2015 on the two that I can look at right now |
| 08:38:28 | <systwi_> | Labelled as "new" from the seller? Ehh, I don't like the sound of that. |
| 08:38:45 | <systwi_> | Even if they are, HDDs shouldn't really sit idle for long periods of time. |
| 08:39:27 | <systwi_> | Spec sheet on that model of drive: https://documents.westerndigital.com/content/dam/doc-library/en_us/assets/public/wd/product/internal-storage/wd-re/data-sheet-wd-re.pdf |
| 08:39:44 | <systwi_> | Date is May 2016. :-| |
| 08:40:37 | <Doranwen> | huh |
| 08:40:42 | <Doranwen> | both drives said 2 March 2015 on them |
| 08:40:47 | <Doranwen> | I have no idea what's going on then |
| 08:40:58 | <systwi_> | I mean, that's not a _huge_ problem, but I wouldn't rely on them fully as day-to-day disks. I think, as backups, they wouldn't be too problematic (assuming they work, of course, which I'm with you on being leery about the whole thing). |
| 08:41:56 | <systwi_> | They could be from slightly before then. That spec sheet might be a slight revision newer, but either way, relatively old for HDD standards. |
| 08:42:12 | <systwi_> | I might have one kicking around, let me see what the date is on there. |
| 08:42:58 | <Doranwen> | yeah, I need a 4 TB I can use day-to-day |
| 08:43:09 | <Doranwen> | outside of the main OS drive, this is the one I access the ost |
| 08:43:11 | <Doranwen> | *most |
| 08:45:13 | <systwi_> | I know I have one around here somewhere - can't find it now. But yeah, I'm pretty certain WD stopped making those RE drives and replaced them with Gold disks now. |
| 08:45:25 | <systwi_> | *nowadays |
| 08:46:12 | <systwi_> | A day-to-day use 4TB disk, I'd suggest a (new) WD Black. The warranty on those is 3 years I think. |
| 08:46:12 | | Doranwen sighs |
| 08:46:16 | <systwi_> | :-( |
| 08:46:51 | <Doranwen> | $120 I can do for one drive, but four… |
| 08:46:57 | <Doranwen> | though the rest are just backups |
| 08:47:08 | <Doranwen> | but they might end up regular drives if the originals die at some point |
| 08:47:50 | <Doranwen> | yeah, I'm only allowed 1 anyway |
| 08:47:51 | <Doranwen> | lol |
| 08:47:54 | <Doranwen> | if I buy from Newegg |
| 08:49:40 | <systwi_> | Could you maybe do $120 for the one main disk and buy a few (used, _maybe_?) other, cheaper disks for the backups? |
| 08:49:43 | <Doranwen> | ebay, I can find a cheap one but seller doesn't accept returns and with the track record I've had... I don't think I want to risk that one |
| 08:50:18 | <Doranwen> | used drives? I've never dared buy a used drive, lol |
| 08:51:18 | <Doranwen> | this isn't bad pricewise: https://www.ebay.com/itm/204058483066 |
| 08:51:48 | <systwi_> | Re: No returns accepted, you're protected under eBay buyer protection, which in other words, if they send you a DoA drive, you won't be at fault; the seller will be forced by eBay to either refund you or cover the shipping back for a replacement. The "no returns accepted" only applies if it's on _you_, e.g. "it doesn't fit in my system," "I don't l |
| 08:51:48 | <systwi_> | ike the colour," "I changed my mind," etc. |
| 08:52:01 | <systwi_> | Checking the link... |
| 08:52:26 | | Doranwen nods |
| 08:52:38 | <Doranwen> | well, there are some inexpensive ones out there on ebay that claim they're new |
| 08:53:03 | <systwi_> | The only used drives I've purchased were WD Velociraptor disks (bought because they're kinda neat). The one, an 80GB disk, is in my main Artix GNU/Linux box as a boot drive and has been working fine. |
| 08:53:10 | <systwi_> | (knock on wood) |
| 08:53:11 | <Doranwen> | this one's the cheapest I saw: https://www.ebay.com/itm/225111598926 |
| 08:53:29 | <systwi_> | Checking as well... |
| 08:55:47 | <systwi_> | The seller of the $76 one has a higher amount of feedback comments, but the seller of the $65 one has 100% positive feedback, and on eBay, anything below 100% is iffy. eBay is hardest on their sellers. |
| 08:56:21 | <systwi_> | Between those two, I'd say the $65 one is good. |
| 08:56:30 | <systwi_> | Of course, it's entirely your call. |
| 08:56:38 | <systwi_> | Just giving my two cents. |
| 08:58:45 | <systwi_> | I still recommend, if/when you get the new disk (it is being sold as "new" after all), try registering it through WD's warranty portal before deeming it okay. |
| 09:00:21 | | Doranwen nods |
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| 09:00:37 | <Doranwen> | the $65 one will let me buy three of them, I have to pick a fourth from elsewhere anyway |
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| 09:02:07 | <systwi_> | Off-off topic: I wish WD still made their Velociraptor drives, those were so cool! |
| 09:02:39 | <systwi_> | Off-off-off topic: Why isn't "velociraptor" a word in FFox's dictionary? :-S |
| 09:02:44 | <Doranwen> | lol |
| 09:03:41 | <systwi_> | Have you looked into those WD My Books/full-size Elements drives? |
| 09:04:03 | <Doranwen> | I haven't - I don't know much about hdd series or anything |
| 09:04:25 | <systwi_> | Those are 3.5" disks inside USB encolsures that are typically pretty cheap in comparison to their sold-as-internal counterparts. |
| 09:04:30 | <systwi_> | *enclosures |
| 09:04:35 | <Doranwen> | ah, right, I don't use those |
| 09:04:55 | <systwi_> | I believe some Elements disks are actually white-label Red (NAS) drives. |
| 09:05:30 | <systwi_> | Although, if you did go with that, I think they might still need a small voltage modification to work in regular desktop systems. |
| 09:05:44 | <Doranwen> | nice, there's a seller with a $78 (free shipping) drive with 100% positive feedback |
| 09:05:49 | <Doranwen> | so I might grab that one for the fourth |
| 09:05:57 | <systwi_> | Sounds good. :-) |
| 09:06:39 | | Doranwen crosses fingers and hopes *these* drives will work |
| 09:07:07 | <systwi_> | I hope so too. From what I've heard this has been going on for quite a while. |
| 09:07:42 | <systwi_> | Is the $78 drive the same model as the others? |
| 09:07:46 | <Doranwen> | I've had some fail and new ones replace them and been doing OK as far as everything still has backups except this one drive, I'm down to just the backup and I was going to replace it |
| 09:07:52 | <Doranwen> | from what I can tell, yes, it is |
| 09:08:09 | | systwi_ also nods |
| 09:08:38 | <Doranwen> | it's just really frustrating because I need access to some of the stuff on it, but I'm not touching that backup drive until I can get it copied somewhere else |
| 09:08:48 | <Doranwen> | and I can't do *that* until I have a drive that doesn't fail on first try :P |
| 09:09:04 | <systwi_> | Right, I see. :-/ |
| 09:09:44 | <Doranwen> | and the other three are so I can backup all three of my 4 TB drives |
| 09:09:48 | <Doranwen> | a second time |
| 09:10:52 | | Doranwen is paranoid enough now that she's leaving the two that are in an external enclosure off entirely until she has working drives to do a second backup to |
| 09:11:50 | <Doranwen> | now let's test the 2 TB ones I got as well, lol |
| 09:11:56 | <Doranwen> | see if *those* are also doa |
| 09:12:31 | <Doranwen> | heh, so far so good on this one |
| 09:16:19 | <systwi_> | Checking the SMART data? |
| 09:17:41 | <Doranwen> | I'm trying to remember where to look to see that... |
| 09:17:45 | <systwi_> | I'd also, even though it takes a long time, do a full block scan on each disk, and probably a random seek test to have a better idea as to their reliability. |
| 09:17:58 | <systwi_> | I think `smartctl` in the Terminal can show that? |
| 09:18:10 | <systwi_> | With some extra flags, and probably running as root. |
| 09:19:43 | <systwi_> | *smartmontools |
| 09:19:45 | <systwi_> | I think... |
| 09:20:03 | <systwi_> | Oh, smartmontools is the package, smartctl is the command. |
| 09:21:28 | <systwi_> | Although, there's probably a neater layout GUI tool that shows SMART data too. I can only think of one; it's on Hiren's BootCD 15.2, if you choose the Linux recovery OS in the boot menu. |
| 09:22:07 | <systwi_> | It's one of the disk tools on the desktop (which I'm sure is already in a downloadable package somewhere). |
| 09:22:27 | <Doranwen> | the command's fine, I'm looking at it now |
| 09:23:19 | <systwi_> | Nice, nice. |
| 09:23:49 | <systwi_> | From my command history: |
| 09:24:12 | <Doranwen> | just trying to remember what to look for, lol |
| 09:24:19 | <Doranwen> | from what I can tell it's never been run before |
| 09:24:23 | <systwi_> | $ sudo smartctl /dev/sda -a | grep -i overall |
| 09:24:59 | <systwi_> | For a quick "is it okay or not" answer. The whole SMART stat printout can be daunting. <_>; |
| 09:25:11 | <Doranwen> | eh, I've looked at the entire printout before, it was just a little while back |
| 09:25:36 | <Doranwen> | so I'd forgotten how to call it up and which values to watch |
| 09:25:50 | <Doranwen> | I spotted where it says it passed thouh |
| 09:25:53 | <Doranwen> | *though |
| 09:26:11 | <Doranwen> | so this one looks good, I'm using it as a second backup for one of the smaller drives that's in the tower |
| 09:26:38 | <Doranwen> | I'll get at least those drives fully backed up two ways and then hopefully make progress on my other drives when the new one(s) arrive |
| 09:26:56 | <systwi_> | I think under RAW_VALUE is where to look? I get confused with the layout often. |
| 09:27:52 | <systwi_> | If that's a new disk I still recommend a full block scan and seek test, just to be extra sure. |
| 09:27:56 | <Doranwen> | those are all 0s except for the 1s showing this time's startup and power cycle, and of course the temp which isn't 0 |
| 09:28:18 | <systwi_> | Okay, cool, that does sound like a new-new drive. :-) |
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| 23:04:53 | <@JAA> | 'The global epidemic is out of control. The ZOMBID-19 disease has transformed and its Epsilon mutation is 100 times more contagious with a nasty course. The earth is overrun with horny zombies <...>' Zombie porn. Yeah, of course that's a thing... |
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| 23:28:39 | <thuban> | ever seen _pot zombies_ ? |
| 23:31:12 | <systwi_> | "Eat a Snickers; you're not you when you're hungry." |
| 23:31:16 | <systwi_> | :-P |