00:03:32<Aoede>https://archive.vn/mSYxk
00:03:39<Aoede>Gab got hacked
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01:49:36<SCSi>hacked again?
02:06:33<Wayward>I can't even understand how people's passwords are stolen this side of 2010. There's no excuse for a server to ever know let alone retain a user's password.
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02:09:17<Wayward>The webpage/app shouldn't even transmit the passphrase itself, but a hash of it.
02:18:26<@JAA>Except that's basically useless because now the password's just the hash.
02:23:05<benjins>you could pre-hash it with something like SHA, transmit that, and then have the server do bcrypt/scrypt/etc. on the initial hash
02:23:25<benjins>problem with that is it's no longer a standard web form, and would require JS
02:24:01<Wayward>JAA: an account-seeded hash is better than knowing the fleshy human's magic words
02:24:04<@JAA>That, and it doesn't actually fix or change anything. Even an attacker that compromises the server and logs all login attempts will get the data needed to log in as any user afterwards.
02:24:23<Wayward>so what if a hacked website's user account gets trashed. at least the hacker doesn't have access to their paypal
02:24:47<Wayward>Gab no longer exists going forward, so nobody cares about their account.
02:24:49<@JAA>Yes, password reuse is the real issue.
02:24:53<Wayward>They're vanished.
02:26:03<Wayward>But that's why a website/service should never allow the fleshy human's magic words to grace their network.
02:26:05<@JAA>If you use unique random passwords everywhere, it doesn't really matter how they're stored on the server. If an attacker gets access to that data on the server side, the site likely has bigger issues.
02:26:36<Jake>(for the record, I believe Gab did use bcrypt on the server side.)
02:26:36<Wayward>if if if. you have to be around more 56, 60, 70 year old adults to know that is a very tenuous 'if'.
02:26:43<Wayward>*50
02:27:21<@JAA>I know that.
02:27:47<Wayward>I still can't get the direct of a non profit that handles $200K of donations per year to utilize a password that isn't 7 lowercase characters followed by the number '1' on all of her accounts.
02:27:53<Wayward>I keep changing them and she keeps changing them back
02:27:59<Wayward>*director
02:30:27<atphoenix>Passwords suck. RIP OpenID. No, Google and Facebook login is not a substitute.
02:33:24<Wayward>speaking of website authentication. eBay is the most insane right now and not even PayPal or anyone else does this. If you log into eBay while connected to a VPN service, they will first prompt you with a ReCaptcha, then they will ask for your password, then they will make you 2-factor auth with your cellphone even if you have 2-factor disabled, then they will ReCaptcha you again...
02:33:40<Wayward>THEN, THEN, they will say Access Denied. Your account password has been reset. Please check your email.
02:33:54<Wayward>You have to log off the VPN to utilize eBay.
02:36:39<Wayward>I've done this 3 times over the past 6 months.
02:36:49<atphoenix>maybe eBay wants to go out of business?
02:37:26<Wayward>I know eBay has a China problem, but still, at least say "We do not allow connections from your VPN."
02:38:52<atphoenix>maybe we should archive eBay. eBought. eSold. deBay.
02:39:17<Wayward>Would have been neat if people archived eBay listings over the years.
02:39:21<atphoenix>what's eBay's China problem? fake sellers?
02:39:23<Wayward>They get deleted after 90 days
02:39:39<Wayward>yeah, sellers and fake buyers and feedback back scratching.
02:39:41<atphoenix>eBay used to let listings sit around for a loooooong time. Early days at least
02:40:03<Wayward>it might even be 60 days now
02:40:51<Wayward>They also no longer allow penny items because Chinese sellers would use that to rake in feedback on the cheap, so it's 99 cents now
02:41:33<Wayward>i purchased 100 one-penny hello kitty dice bags, one apiece. dice bags kept arriving for 3 weeks, individually wrapped in china post baggies.
02:41:59<atphoenix>their search sucks too. I've searched for specific terms and found nothing. Then I go looking for a different related term and somehow I find the item I was looking for...and it has the words I was searching for in the original search...but of course searching for those words is useless to find said item.
02:42:37<Wayward>they used to allowe regex searches 20 years ago :(
02:43:00<Wayward>that's how i learned how to regexp
02:43:45<atphoenix>Yes, I bought something like like $0.50 once. A USB adapter I think. I had eBay Bucks that were expiring. Of course that is a dead program, starting in a few days too.
02:44:51<atphoenix>Also used to be possible to see what other people bought, so I could look up my friend's accounts and see what goodies they got. Might also have been able to see what they were bidding on too.
02:45:02<Wayward>i should have insulated my walls in china post bubble wrap
02:46:38<Wayward>indeed. once upon a time they had community forums as well, for people who liked to collect certain antiques or beanie babies, etc. all very naive and full email addresses visible on both the forums and ebay listings and bidders.
02:48:17<Wayward>on one hand it kept people honest with obvious family members shilling bids, on the other hand everyone got spammed to hell and back
02:48:22<atphoenix>Insulated walls...reminds me of this story: https://about.usps.com/who-we-are/postal-history/bank-of-vernal.pdf
02:49:47<atphoenix>there still is a forums of sorts. https://community.ebay.com/t5/Discussions/ct-p/12001
02:57:58<Wayward>heh, that's a neat bit of history. one way for a small town to realize government subsidy.
02:58:56<Wayward>i have no doubt China Post is one such subsidy. If I were to individually mail 100 dice bags to a friend across town, it would cost me over $100 bucks. Not 100 cents.
02:59:39<Wayward>Of course, my own post office got screwed on the deal as well
03:07:37<atphoenix>I'm pretty sure that even if China Post senders had to pay increased rates, that nothing would change for our prices to send across town, or Chicago to Nashhville. eBay sellers also get screwed.. Basically can't sell anything under $10 with 'free shipping' unless it fits in a flat envelope that doesn't exceed 1/4" thickness.
03:09:55<Wayward>i can't tell if the dice bag sellers were losing any money for the delayed gains of having a high-feedback rating that allows them to sell in 'lots' and more expensive goods, legitimately. Or if they were just making quick returns on a fast scam as soon as they reached the necessary rating.
03:10:09<Wayward>Americans only need like 10 feedback, but Chinese need like 1000.
03:10:53<Wayward>And all the hundreds of accounts were obviously the same seller humans.
03:11:42<Wayward>they're also held to extremely high standards. like 5 negative feedback in a row disables their account until remediation
03:11:56<Wayward>maybe less than that
03:12:16<atphoenix>that explains why they are quite interested in fixing problems
03:12:22<Wayward>oh yes
03:13:12<Wayward>so they've got dozens of fall-back accounts to carry along without hiccup
03:14:35<atphoenix>I ordered a specialized cable from one. It was soldered poorly (had a solder lump) which in turn made the connector sit off-center on the end of the cable. They sent me another.
03:15:25<Wayward>aye.
03:15:59<Wayward>It's also why Amazon doesn't allow just-anyone to sell computer / consumer electronics without having a proper store/company.
03:17:38<Wayward>btw, was that cable an illuminating cold cathode wire? I had the same problem with mine.
03:23:43<atphoenix>no, it was an EC5 extension cable. I was making an EC5 to Anderson PowerPole adapter for a Cellpro PowerLab charger.
03:23:53<Wayward>noice.
03:24:00<Wayward>I use powerpoles on everything.
03:24:19<Wayward>Just made a USB-C QC3.0 12v trigger to powerpole
03:24:28<Wayward>I should do a 15v trigger too
03:26:12<atphoenix>speaking of Anderson PowerPoles, I ordered some from eBay, from several different sellers. I figured out which were fakes/clones (listing said Anderson, listing didn't say clone), and forced them to refund me (they chose to pay for return shipping).
03:27:23<Wayward>Are any of them real, let alone good?
03:28:24<atphoenix>I'm pretty sure the ones I kept were real. I believe all were from US sellers, but some were obviously not real, due to clear fit/finish differences
03:28:25<Wayward>i've always just bought them from powerwerx, crimpers too
03:29:06<atphoenix>I got some, including crimper, from HamRadioOutlet
03:30:01Wayward feels the tingles of being asked to take this to #archiveteam-ot-ot
03:30:29<atphoenix>but we don't have an ot-ot :D So we're bikeshedding.
03:31:07<Wayward>#archiveteam-ot-bs then it is :) you wanna start it?
03:31:38<atphoenix>if an op tells me to, I'll go
03:32:37<atphoenix>anyhow I've converted some items to PowerPole. I have a vehicle jumppack with a 12v out to cig-lighter socket. Cut that in half to insert PowerPoles in the middle, effectively making 2 adapters. Inverter, tire inflator compressor too.
03:32:40<Wayward>but yeah, i'm loving USB-C (QC3.0) as my universal adapter. 3 to 5 amps is nothing to scoff at.
03:34:16<atphoenix>the fake PowerPoles didn't slide together side by side very well, and developed a definite curve once you got say 8 next to each other. They little fine print branding on the connector end also was not sharp (or present at all).
03:34:27<Wayward>just buy the $2 trigger modules off ebay to instruct your charger which voltage. 5, 9, 12, 15/16, 19/20. i forget what's all available
03:35:16<atphoenix>I don't necessarily mind off-brand items...if that is what I am shopping for, but don't try to sell me off-brand items as on-brand items.
03:36:12<Wayward>well, and there's no point in using a crappy plug when the whole point of powerpoles is they're nice to use, so they must be nice to use.
03:38:50<atphoenix>indeed. And these little ones are good for up to 45 amps max. As for QC, I'm not sure I have any USB 3.0 power supplies that will do 12v out. But when I do, I'll need to make PP adapters. I still need to make a Molex 12v to PP adapter for use for ATX power supplies.
03:39:06<atphoenix>for use with* ATX
03:41:00<Wayward>Good adapters aren't that expensive. You can already find second-hand laptops with USB-C power that are fully compliant.
03:41:20<Wayward>They're also sold for Rasp Pi kits
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03:44:28<atphoenix>I have a Rasp Pi 4 adapter. It is only labeled for 5.1v 3a. USB 3.0 doesn't mean all the higher voltages are available on all power supplies, the lowest voltages should always be available, but the higher ones vary.
03:50:36<Wayward>no, but that's what QC3.0 enables
03:50:56<Wayward>unrelated to USB 3.0
03:51:51<Wayward>(certainly not every adapter supports this)
03:52:04<atphoenix>I mean QC3.0 enables the higher voltages but doesn't guarantee they are available on all such power supplies.
03:53:06<atphoenix>I meant to type USB-C/QC3.0 2 posts up.
03:54:46<atphoenix>result: USB-C laptop charge can charge a phone by running at whatever lower voltage the phone requests, but USB-C phone charger probably won't do anything useful for the laptop.
03:55:12<atphoenix>r/charge/charger in first instance
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04:06:43<@hook54321>thoughts on bacon in mac and cheese?
04:10:53<atphoenix>that's a nope. 'Mac and Cheese' isn't called 'Mac and Cheese and Bacon'
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04:35:31<Craigle>I lvoe bacon, and I love mac and cheese. If I'm going through the trouble of making bacon, I'm adding it to something that it will either majorly enhance, or where I can fully appreciate the bacon
04:36:00<Craigle>I feel like it just gets drowned out in the mac and cheese
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04:39:00<Wayward>atphoenix: This genuine Dell asserts 5/9/15/20 at 3~3.25A but costs $40. Keep an eye open at thrift stores, it won't be long. https://www.amazon.com/Dell-Charger-Adapter-Include-Latitude/dp/B07Q23VK8V/
04:39:46<Wayward>(i'd be very surprised if a 12v trigger didn't also work)
04:41:17<atphoenix>agreed. These kind of adapters should become inexpensive when they end up in bulk liquidation on ebay too.
04:41:44<Wayward>there are also highly rated off-brand ones going for under $30
04:42:06<Wayward>same specs, and also asserting 12v
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06:07:53<@kiska>For me its mac and lactose free cheese :D
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06:25:38Doranwen is a vegetarian who's not fond of much cheese, lol
06:25:56<Doranwen>my last mac & cheese was a vegan variety - my aunt found the recipe, and it was very tasty
06:26:13<Doranwen>so my opinion on the bacon would be an obvious 'no' ;)
06:30:39<Jake>what's the best vegan cheese you've tried?
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15:31:50<Doranwen>Jake: I actually don't care for specific vegan cheeses, really - the vegan mac & cheese dish I liked used blended tofu with some seasonings (a LOT of nutritional yeast, actually) and that worked well
15:32:01<Doranwen>but I tend to leave off cheese rather than substitute with vegan versions
15:32:35Doranwen does like small amounts of cheddar or monterey jack sprinkled on some dishes but far less than most people use, and is very particular about which cheese she uses on sandwiches
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17:09:52<AK>Today I accidentally deleted a VM that wasn't supposed to be in use for anything. Turns out it was, they had no backups, 4 weeks of work down the drain and they wanna blame it all on me. Feck
17:10:28<SCSi>:(
17:10:29<SCSi>that sucks
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17:23:41<atphoenix>undelete? on a versioning filesystem? You *might* have options. Slim chance on the first. Decent chance on the second. The corporate server decom processes I've helped with tended to include a power-off period before unracking or deletion.
17:42:56<AK>Hehe more like Azures "Select all resources" "Delete"
17:42:58<AK>So it's gone
17:43:30<AK>As far as we knew it was a spare vm not being used, so it didn't have any protections or backups
17:43:34<AK>Turns out the users saw it differently
17:43:50<AK>Now just waiting to see what my manager says/does
17:55:28<atphoenix>hopefully you have some kind of documentation/emails/ServiceNow tickets or other processes that you can point to that justify the deletion of spare VMs
17:55:48<atphoenix>it's always fun when non-production systems start being used by users as production systems
18:49:53<Wayward>How the hell does bad user "i refuse to do backups" behavior translate to going after the IT guy? Fire the dullard employee for violating data policies.
18:51:32<Wayward>"My entire senior thesis project is on this one diskette. I need it to graduate. Hell no there are no backups, ain't got time for DAT."
18:51:41<SCSi>esp since vm snaps are pretty easy to do
19:06:57<atphoenix>"Redundancy is for the weak. YOLO." /s
19:07:03<AK>That's what our approach has been, we spun up this vm without any backups or protection because it was intended as a test system, with no essential data on it
19:07:11<AK>They changed that without telling us
19:07:21<AK>So when I accidentally deleted it, it should have been fine
19:07:32<AK>Instead they're saying all 4 weeks of client work and data is gone
19:08:16<atphoenix>if that's in the SLA, then it's on them for misusing the environment. Putting prod data in lower envs.
19:08:44<AK>Upside is the budget just appeared for backups for a bunch of projects that just rely on stuff not going wrong
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20:57:22<SCSi>bah, my RAID is my backup!
21:09:15<@JAA>*RAID-0
21:10:08<SCSi>what, thats not a good backup plan? a raid-0 array of raid-0 drives?
21:10:32<SCSi>stripeception
21:11:47<@JAA>Don't forget to include some old USB thumb drives as well.
21:11:57<@JAA>You know, for backups on external storage.
21:12:36<SCSi>oh, of course those are part of the raid-0, i cant buy drive space and not use every last bit of it
21:12:41<SCSi>that would make me a horrible hoarder!
21:14:51<SCSi>to be fair i did run freenas for a while from raid-1 usb thumbdrives
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