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00:24:27<nstrom|m>thought site was staying up just api was going away, so not really anything to archive there besides documentation
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00:53:43<eggdrop>[remind] OrIdow6: add LJ (https://bsky.app/profile/rahaeli.bsky.social/post/3mbebi2xfxc25) to https://wiki.archiveteam.org/index.php/Shutdown_rumors,_hoaxes,_and_scares while at it
00:53:44<eggdrop>[remind] OrIdow6: add realkalos to hoaxes
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01:20:27<DogsRNice>api going away probably isnt a good sign for the long term health of the site
01:35:22<@JAA>That, and it might be easier to discover all contents through the API.
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01:48:25<nicolas17>JAA: well that could be tricky
01:48:42<katia>it would take some tenor
01:48:52<nicolas17>if I understood correctly, the API will be shut down in June for existing API users, but it's already not possible to get a new API key
01:49:07<katia>find one somewhere
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02:08:59<KerwoodDerby6>Is anyone here concerned with piano roll archiving?
02:09:24<nicolas17>like physical rolls?
02:09:56<KerwoodDerby6>Well, mostly their digitized form
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02:13:06<KerwoodDerby6>20 years ago I became part of a very small community which built their own digitization mechanisms to scan piano rolls, and since then have scanned over 8,000 rolls. I've ceased scanning a couple years ago, but I have info about the file formats we used and the means of converting them to MIDI format.
02:14:07<KerwoodDerby6>I think there might be about 20,000-30,000 rollscans in the world right now
02:15:12<KerwoodDerby6>The best archive of this to date is http://www.pianorollmusic.org/rolldatabase.php
02:15:33<KerwoodDerby6>which I think is suboptimal for the future
02:16:51<nicolas17>many items there have no links, how does that work?
02:17:22<nicolas17>does that mean someone has the roll but didn't scan it? or didn't upload the scan?
02:18:57<KerwoodDerby6>Annoyingly, the titles which have not entered the US public domain will not be linked. Also, titles, which had no publication date when scanned, cannot be assigned a public domain date
02:19:23<nicolas17>I see
02:20:02<KerwoodDerby6>That said, I have a back-channel to access the files as necessary. My query relates to any larger attempt to once-and-for-all get these rolls archived
02:21:12<nicolas17>we could archive this website and all files in it, yes
02:22:55<nicolas17>technical notes for the archivists reading: we can't just archivebot the front page and let it crawl because rolldatabase pagination uses form controls rather than links, but it's all GET, not POST
02:24:00<nicolas17>so I guess we can make a list of all the page numbers and sortby params, and feed that into !a<
02:26:39<KerwoodDerby6>Of course, it gets more complicated -- these rolls have holes punched in them, and the holes have different meanings depending on where on the roll they get punched, but when they are reduced to MIDI that information is lost. There is an intermediate file format (".CIS") which captures the physical, longitudinal image of the roll, which also has
02:26:39<KerwoodDerby6>archival value, but does anyone want to take ownership of such a fiddly, historically-particular, ancient digital music storage medium?
02:28:07<KerwoodDerby6>There were rolls for ordinary home listening, and there were other roll formats which supported expressive musical performance for serious pieces
02:28:39<nicolas17>what do you mean by "take ownership"?
02:29:31<KerwoodDerby6>I guess I mean that a proper archive of piano rolls should probably be curated, and that's asking a lot more than simply copying files
02:29:57<nicolas17>is the IAMMP website still being "maintained"?
02:30:20<KerwoodDerby6>not really, the maintainer is an IT guy for the local public schools
02:31:29<KerwoodDerby6>I just thought I should bring it up here since piano rolls are mentioned in the file-formats part of the wiki
02:35:45<KerwoodDerby6>Well, at least this can be a start of discussion for now. I ran across archiveteam over a year ago and thought that someday I should ask them about piano rolls, which was today, so there's that.
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02:42:15<@JAA>I think it's worth preserving the digital data pre-MIDI-conversion. I'm sure the Internet Archive wouldn't mind accepting such uploads, perhaps as one item per roll containing CIS, MIDI, and (if available) photos of the packaging etc. They'd almost certainly also take the rolls that aren't public domain yet (and just not make them publicly accessible if necessary).
02:48:14<ats>It's a similar kind of deal to archiving computer magtapes/papertapes - it's worth keeping the raw format because there's extra information there, even if most people will use a derivative format.
02:49:01<ats>(Or, for a more dramatic example, RF captures of LaserDiscs, which are about 100 times bigger than the video file you end up with after decoding - there are plenty of those on IA...)
02:51:49<@JAA>Same with floppies and archiving the full magnetic scan with a KryoFlux or similar.
02:51:56<pokechu22>Hmm, for US copyright law, do piano rolls count as a recording, or a composition? (I guess for that matter, how does sheet music count)? I know there are two types of music copyrights but haven't really looked into it beyond that
02:53:26<@JAA>That part sounds like a fun rabbit hole: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White-Smith_Music_Publishing_Co._v._Apollo_Co.?useskin=vector
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03:45:30<@JAA>https://www.opendiary.com/ is back online, by the way. Still with the shutdown notice for 2026-01-31.
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04:16:36<h2ibot>PaulWise edited Finding subdomains (+97, status page strategy): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=60109&oldid=58320
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05:13:40<pabs>KerwoodDerby6: I note that the piano rolls site has an open directory, so looks like we can save everything including non-PD stuff https://www.pianorollmusic.org/html
05:13:52<pabs>https://www.pianorollmusic.org/html/tsmythe/midifiles/NonPDfiles/
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05:16:24<pabs>KerwoodDerby6: should I just start an ArchiveBot job for https://www.pianorollmusic.org/html? /cc nicolas17 JAA ats pokechu22
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05:17:35<nicolas17>that would get all the raw data yeah, but not the listings
05:18:11<nicolas17>to get the lists, as I said, we'd need to make a list of all the pages because AB can't crawl that
05:18:42<nicolas17>(and exclude /html to avoid duplication with your job now :p)
05:19:00<pabs>it will get / and then /rolldatabase.php, where are the listings?
05:20:00<pabs>another open dir is https://www.pianorollmusic.org/design/
05:20:29<pabs>so probably want to do the sitemap trick I guess
05:21:13<pabs>oh, I see https://www.pianorollmusic.org/rolldatabase.php?showpage=26&sortby=catalog
05:21:24<nicolas17>pabs: I mean rolldatabase.php, the pagination uses a <form> so AB won't crawl it
05:21:24<pabs>hmm I thought AB could find those
05:21:35<nicolas17>well
05:21:47<nicolas17>it's not an <a href="?page=2">Next</a> so I *assumed* it won't crawl
05:21:59<nicolas17>if AB is smart enough to parse forms then all the better
05:23:51<pokechu22>It parses <form action=/rolldatabase.php> to https://www.pianorollmusic.org/rolldatabase.php but it won't fill in the rest
05:26:19<pokechu22>https://transfer.archivete.am/inline/PdSFb/www.cagematch.net_seed_urls.txt might be suitable for inspiration (though that site was a bit more complicated)
05:26:22<pabs>ok, sitemap trick then
05:27:01<pabs>ah no, not needed since everything is at the top level
05:27:40<pokechu22>(and that site actually *does* use href for pagination, but not for selecting months/years; I listed all pages mainly so that it would get information about everything at the same depth)
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05:28:34<nicolas17>pabs: https://transfer.archivete.am/inline/BYwFH/pianoroll-rolldatabase.txt
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05:33:58<pabs>nicolas17++
05:33:59<eggdrop>[karma] 'nicolas17' now has 24 karma!
05:34:06<pabs>will run https://transfer.archivete.am/VYr9M/www.pianorollmusic.org-open-dirs-and-rolldatabase.php-all-pages.txt
05:34:06<eggdrop>inline (for browser viewing): https://transfer.archivete.am/inline/VYr9M/www.pianorollmusic.org-open-dirs-and-rolldatabase.php-all-pages.txt
05:36:19<nicolas17>I think everything else is reachable from /
05:36:28<nicolas17>so that's good
05:37:18<pabs>KerwoodDerby6: going to run https://www.mmdigest.com/ too
05:39:06<@arkiver>justauser: yes on blogs.sapo.pt. that will run a bit closer to the deadline, not yet now
05:39:15<pabs>I couldn't find any other open dirs on pianorollmusic.org btw
05:39:59<@arkiver>https://icosa.gallery/ is nice
05:41:03<@arkiver>so tenor shutdown is not official right?
05:41:08<@arkiver>oh
05:41:32<@arkiver>nvm
05:41:44<nicolas17>arkiver: API shutdown is official, "if they kill the API I bet they'll kill the entire website by next year" is speculation based on Google's track record
05:44:35<pabs>KerwoodDerby6: also https://www.spencerserolls.com/ https://jeffbourdier.github.io/
05:44:43<@arkiver>time for tenor
05:44:47<@arkiver>thanks nicolas17
05:44:51<@arkiver>any ideas for a channel name?
05:45:05<nicolas17>also using the API will be tricky
05:45:17<Hans5958>end of tenure idk
05:45:25<@arkiver>deadline june 30
05:45:33<nicolas17>afaik the API will work until June 30, but you can no longer get new API keys
05:45:45<@arkiver>would someone be able to add that to the deathwatch page?
05:45:55<nicolas17>so where will we find an API key we can abuse
05:46:16<@arkiver>i was thinking more about backing up the entirety of tenor with June 30 as deadline
05:46:25<nicolas17>via website?
05:46:32<@arkiver>yes and API as much as possible
05:46:44<@arkiver>need to look into how tenor is used in other services, if it uses API, etc.
05:46:50<@arkiver>we'd archive the public facing part
05:49:20<nicolas17>hmm... new game launched today https://hytale.com/, a friend was looking to archive every build to avoid what happened with minecraft, where an early build was lost media until someone randomly found it in an old PC backup
05:51:23<nicolas17>there's currently 2 builds but idk how often they'll be patching it
05:52:28<nicolas17>and it's already 1.5GiB x {v1,v2} x {windows,linux,mac} x {release,pre-release} = 18GiB... this could grow fast :p
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06:00:03<pabs>KerwoodDerby6: btw, the AB job for www.pianorollmusic.org is getting some 404s on .mid files, I think there are some typoed links. we will get the real files though
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06:08:50<h2ibot>PaulWise edited Category:Software archiving (+60, add Software Preservation Society): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=60110&oldid=58332
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06:53:07<pabs>JAA: canonical.com pinged me again, could you send them the relevant AB/etc IP addresses?
06:57:16<pabs>forwarded the mail to AT
06:58:18<@JAA>pabs: Oops, right, ack
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08:13:02<h|ca2>nicolas17: can you deduplicate builds somehow?
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09:35:23<Webuser288239>Hello. A famous Japanese Pokémon BBS will be shutting down tomorrow (2026/15/01 JST). Can anyone help?
09:35:23<Webuser288239>https://pokemonbbs.com/post/
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12:20:08<KerwoodDerby6>pabs: OK, thanks, that's a good start. I'm new at this, so I don't know where the bot is putting stuff, and so can't comment on the results so far.
12:21:48<KerwoodDerby6>pabs: MMDigest is a good resource with high SNR, in spite of the age of the information
12:30:54<KerwoodDerby6>pokechu22: As I understand it, piano rolls are categorized as "musical recording", and the copyright remains in force for 95 years in the US
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12:50:55<pabs>KerwoodDerby6: the piano rolls job finished, it will get uploaded to archive.org in a few days, and eventually get indexed into web.archive.org (they have a large backlog though)
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13:07:57<cruller>According to https://pokemonbbs.com/bbs.html, “I intend to keep the logs for at least several years.”
13:25:42<Dango360>wiki idea: cdx summaries of finished DPoS projects https://github.com/internetarchive/cdx-summary
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13:38:12<justauser>JAA: ran an AB from root, but this smells like an !a < and I don't even know what to use for starting points.
13:44:12<justauser>For Tenor, we can use #soprano or #bass.
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13:50:33<gosc>I've got an api I've been posting to, how do I go about preserving the api output? I've already done a dozen or so post requests to it, I feel like I can't save all of it myself efficiently
14:06:46<@JAA>justauser: What's that referring to?
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14:09:06<justauser>opendiary.com
14:09:47<justauser>Docs say there is a user search, but I can't find it. /circles/ may work...
14:10:39<@JAA>Ah, yeah. Profile pages also have a calendar thingy with <select>. That's as far as I've looked at it though.
14:37:22<klea>btw, how do i make a websocket connection to get all the tracker feed?
14:37:30<klea>it seems it's not possible to get a json formatted feed easily?
14:38:44<@imer>klea: you'd have to grab each projects feed separately if that's what you're asking
14:39:05<klea>and even then, i see the browser uses socket.io which seems to not have a static endpoint.
14:42:02<@imer>mh, yeah not sure about the internals there.
14:42:11<klea>thanks anyways :)
14:42:35<justauser>-dev?
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15:14:16<h2ibot>Klea edited Phorge (+199, Add more phorge/phabricator instances.): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=60111&oldid=59991
15:15:17<h2ibot>Klea edited Phorge (+31, Add feedback.bistudio.com): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=60112&oldid=60111
15:17:17<h2ibot>Klea edited Phorge (+27, Add ticket.majava.org): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=60113&oldid=60112
15:19:17<h2ibot>Klea edited Phorge (+165, Add phabricator.testwiki.wiki,…): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=60114&oldid=60113
15:19:18<h2ibot>Klea edited Phorge (+56, Add phabricator.ushow.media, pha.tmcdx.com): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=60115&oldid=60114
15:22:17<h2ibot>Klea edited Discourse (+17, /* Active Discourses */ Fix edit link): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=60116&oldid=60077
15:23:18<h2ibot>Klea edited Discourse (-1, /* Active Discourses */ Make edit not look odd.): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=60117&oldid=60116
15:23:46<klea>i should've made it in another way wait a sec
15:24:18<h2ibot>Klea edited Discourse (+16, /* List of Archived Discourse Forums */ Fix…): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=60118&oldid=60117
15:24:19<h2ibot>Manu edited Discourse/active (+55, Add discourse.opencode.de): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=60119&oldid=60108
15:25:18<h2ibot>Manu edited Discourse/active (+0, Insert sort recent additions): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=60120&oldid=60119
15:26:18<h2ibot>Klea edited Discourse (+109, Make edit texts less odd): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=60121&oldid=60118
15:27:18<h2ibot>Klea edited URLTeam/Dead (+25, Don't include references section.): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=60122&oldid=59421
15:28:18<h2ibot>Klea edited URLTeam (+33, Readd references section now that template…): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=60123&oldid=60106
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15:42:20<h2ibot>Klea created Phorge/uncategorized (+1405, Created page with "* [https://dev.gnupg.org/…): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?title=Phorge/uncategorized
15:43:20<h2ibot>Klea edited Phorge (-661, Add subpage): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=60125&oldid=60115
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16:00:08<@arkiver>imer: could we perhaps have a target for maxmodels? it's starting within the hour i hope
16:00:13<@arkiver>i think it will not be very big
16:00:18<@imer>sure thing
16:00:26<@arkiver>(i know we have a ton of stuff running right now, many deadline)
16:00:28<@arkiver>for
16:00:31<@arkiver>archiveteam_maxmodels_
16:00:33<@arkiver>maxmodels_
16:00:37<@arkiver>Archive Team Maxmodels.pl:
16:03:05<@imer>arkiver: target's up and drone has been poked
16:04:12<@arkiver>imer: thanks a lot as always
16:07:17<klea>arkiver, what's the channel name?
16:07:31<@arkiver>no channel name
16:07:35<@arkiver>i think this will be a quick easy one
16:07:36<klea>oh
16:08:11<klea>inb4 arkiver changes default project to it :p
16:08:38<@arkiver>after the #kickthebucket deadline
16:09:02<@arkiver>but if they have no rate limiting (did they?) i think other will have no problem getting it done without default warrior project
16:09:45<@arkiver>hmm i vaguely remember their being rate limiting
16:09:47<@arkiver>we'll see i guess
16:10:51<Hans5958>we'll see (tm)
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