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02:13:02 | <h2ibot> | PaulWise edited ArchiveBot/Ignore (-163, merge Flickr ignores into one /cc pokechu22): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=56643&oldid=56617 |
02:13:58 | <pokechu22> | pabs: I generally do those ignores from memory, but if you're looking it up each time that makes sense |
02:14:55 | <pabs> | yeah I find copy-paste easier. a single line also means I can add a /flickr command to my IRC client :) |
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02:27:32 | <@JAA> | Re [[Patreon]] edit, I don't think we should have anything like a recommendation to use webrecorder tools for archival on the wiki either. |
02:34:31 | <hexagonwin_> | Is webrecorder bad? I find it pretty useful for saving some pages that need auth, for small personal archiving. |
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02:35:13 | <@JAA> | None of their tooling seems to produce valid WARCs, and they have repeatedly shown not to care about complying with the standard. |
02:35:29 | <hexagonwin_> | I see. That's terrible :/ |
02:35:39 | <@JAA> | https://wiki.archiveteam.org/index.php/The_WARC_Ecosystem has some links to specific problems. |
02:37:15 | <@OrIdow6> | JAA: I wouldn't call that edit an endorsement so much as someone noting that information they found out |
02:37:22 | <hexagonwin_> | Is there some alternative for doing what webrecorder does (saving current browser page)? That page seems to only recommend wget-at and grab-site which doesn't really work for that |
02:37:39 | <@OrIdow6> | We have tons of pages that link to some Python tool that doesn't produce WARCs at all but just dump to JSON or whatever |
02:38:08 | <hexagonwin_> | I was thinking webrecorder's still better than something like SingleFile that discards everything but the current DOM |
02:38:08 | <@JAA> | OrIdow6: Those tools don't pretend to produce 'high-fidelity web archives' though... |
02:39:02 | <@JAA> | hexagonwin_: Well, it's impossible with a browser extension. You need something with a MITM proxy like brozzler + warcprox. |
02:39:04 | | pabs tests to see if archive.today works |
02:39:36 | <hexagonwin_> | Also I've recently found Firefox's devtool has a "Save All As HAR" feature, maybe can that have enough details like a WARC? |
02:39:44 | <@JAA> | Nope |
02:39:50 | <hexagonwin_> | I see :/ |
02:40:00 | <@JAA> | I'm not aware of any browser API that exposes the details needed for WARC. |
02:40:50 | <pabs> | oh, archive.today works with Patreon, nice |
02:41:01 | <@JAA> | Specifically, WARC needs the exact bytes sent by the server, not a parsed representation of the headers that discards whitespace or a decoded body. |
02:41:12 | <@OrIdow6> | JAA: How about, link WebRecorder in the prose, and have "WebRecorder" be a redirect to the column in the Warc Ecosystem table where we "don't recommend it"? |
02:41:25 | <@OrIdow6> | I think it' still useful info to have because it shows the scope of the Cloudflare block |
02:41:52 | <@OrIdow6> | *recommend" it |
02:42:20 | <@OrIdow6> | *row, I am tired |
02:42:25 | <steering> | if you just want to archive patreon content... just use gallery-dl, archiving the webpages is overkill... but if you want to archive patreon, the webpages... a proper WARC is more relevant |
02:43:21 | <steering> | "dump to JSON" is the former, not really the same as archiving the pages, IMHO anyway |
02:44:05 | <pabs> | gallery-dl probably can't save posts like https://www.patreon.com/posts/libreqos-v1-5-1-106946615 ? |
02:44:05 | <h2ibot> | PaulWise edited Patreon (+56, update wording, add mnbot and archive.is): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=56644&oldid=56642 |
02:44:27 | <pabs> | JAA: ^ hopefully better |
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02:47:28 | <steering> | pabs: mmh, seems not, although I'm not sure why, considering that it does save text of posts-with-images along with the rest of the metadata |
02:48:04 | <steering> | my point stands though, it's not about gallery-dl but rather about the difference between archiving webpage content and archiving webpages :P |
02:48:06 | <@JAA> | pabs: Yeah, that's better. :-) |
02:48:28 | <pabs> | ack |
02:48:33 | <@JAA> | pabs++ |
02:48:33 | <eggdrop> | [karma] 'pabs' now has 110 karma! |
02:48:58 | | pabs tries to figure out browser-based mass archive.today saves... |
02:49:12 | <hexagonwin> | btw, just got curious. if WARC saves the exact bytes from the server, for HTTPS sites can someone validate the WARC hasn't been tampered with(MITMed or just edited later)? |
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02:49:48 | <@JAA> | No |
02:50:06 | <h2ibot> | OrIdow6 edited CuriousCat (+67, /* 2024 grab */ Clarify slightly *why* you need…): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=56645&oldid=55915 |
02:50:22 | <steering> | I don't think that would even be possible thanks to DH. |
02:50:22 | <@JAA> | For a start, it stores the HTTP bytes, not TLS. But even if it did, that wouldn't allow for any verification. |
02:51:05 | <@OrIdow6> | We need a FAQ on this |
02:51:05 | <@JAA> | TLS works by establishing a symmetric encryption key between client and server. There's no signature by the server or similar. |
02:53:31 | <nicolas17> | hexagonwin: TLS packets are authenticated, but unfortunately with the way TLS works, both client and server (and your MITM tool) have the key needed to forge the auth hash |
02:53:57 | <@JAA> | Yeah, this kind of thing simply wasn't a part of the design goals for TLS. |
02:55:23 | <hexagonwin> | I see.. I have almost zero knowledge on this subject lol. Then for example, there's no way to verify the WARCs from various archiveteam warriors weren't tampered by a bad actor? |
02:55:25 | <@JAA> | There was that proposal by Google (I think?) for storing website content elsewhere with a signature. Not sure anything ever came of that though. |
02:56:07 | | @JAA can't remember the name. |
02:57:35 | <nicolas17> | damn I should make a pcap-to-warc tool some day >.> |
02:58:11 | <@JAA> | Yeah, not the first time that idea has come up. Needs the TLS master keys, too, though. |
02:59:15 | <@JAA> | s/keys/secrets/ and possibly s/master/pre-&/ |
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03:02:31 | <steering> | JAA: pretty sure that was AMP-related. |
03:02:49 | <steering> | https://web.dev/articles/signed-exchanges |
03:03:09 | <nicolas17> | yeah, they wanted to serve other people's webpages from their CDN such that the browser still associated it with the original domain |
03:04:07 | <steering> | supported by... chromium browsers only :P https://caniuse.com/?search=sxg |
03:04:25 | <@JAA> | Ah yeah, signed exchanges |
03:04:42 | <hexagonwin> | i guess it doesn't really mean much when no web server implement/use it |
03:05:11 | <steering> | IDK if it even needs web server support. I think it's "just a file". |
03:05:30 | <nicolas17> | yeah but needs websites to provide those files, does any? |
03:05:34 | <steering> | But yeah ~only Google has ever used it I think |
03:05:37 | <hexagonwin> | i mean like no website does it |
03:05:53 | <@JAA> | The website would need a key pair/certificate to do the signatures etc. |
03:06:23 | <nicolas17> | I once saw a document for how clients A and B can cooperate so client B makes a request on behalf of A such that A can be sure it really came from the server |
03:06:28 | <steering> | IDK if Google ever actually started using it, I assume they did, I don't remember what they ended up doing with AMP. That was a whole thing. |
03:06:48 | <nicolas17> | but it needed A and B to have real-time interaction during the process so it doesn't really help us for DPoS |
03:06:49 | <@JAA> | Looks like Buttflare has some support for it, too: https://developers.cloudflare.com/speed/optimization/other/signed-exchanges/ |
03:07:57 | <steering> | I assume SXGs aren't allowed to be long-lived anyway so probably not of use for archiving |
03:08:49 | <@JAA> | > A SXG may be valid for at most 7 days. |
03:09:02 | <steering> | The web.dev link says Google caches them and serves them in search results, so presumably *some* people are generating them. |
03:10:18 | <@JAA> | But if the certificates get archived, you could still verify the signature after expiry. Assuming the website's private key for the certificate didn't get leaked, that should still serve as verification, I guess. |
03:10:18 | <steering> | > Note: Production use of SXGs requires a certificate that supports the CanSignHttpExchanges extension. Per spec, certificates with this extension must have a validity period no longer than 90 days and require that the requesting domain have a DNS CAA record configured. |
03:10:25 | <steering> | Thanks for making sure I'm safe, daddy Google. uwu. |
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03:10:53 | <@JAA> | And those certs should be in CT, I suppose. |
03:11:16 | <steering> | Well, yes, you could do it manually certainly. Mostly I mean the browser would start rejecting them |
03:11:33 | <@JAA> | Oh, sure, this would be custom tooling anyway. |
03:11:35 | <steering> | you can't just "serve the SGX forever" or something which would be nice |
03:12:02 | <steering> | (but also problematic if f.e. XSS in the SGX or something? dunno) |
03:12:29 | <@JAA> | grep CanSignHttpExchanges crt.sh |
03:12:30 | <@JAA> | :-P |
03:14:00 | <pabs> | this script seems to work for doing archive.is via browser, no captchas yet https://transfer.archivete.am/kiU37/archive.today.sh |
03:14:01 | <eggdrop> | inline (for browser viewing): https://transfer.archivete.am/inline/kiU37/archive.today.sh |
03:15:50 | <pabs> | (saving all of the posts on https://www.patreon.com/dtaht since he died) |
03:19:16 | <pabs> | with background tab loading https://transfer.archivete.am/142CFt/archive.today.sh |
03:19:17 | <eggdrop> | inline (for browser viewing): https://transfer.archivete.am/inline/142CFt/archive.today.sh |
03:25:11 | <h2ibot> | PaulWise edited Archive.today (+205, add url list archiving script): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=56646&oldid=56014 |
03:26:11 | <h2ibot> | PaulWise edited Archive.today (-2, s/browser/firefox): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=56647&oldid=56646 |
03:26:40 | <cruller> | <nicolas17> "damn I should make a pcap-to-..." <- If I save the appropriate pcap file now, will I be able to convert it to a warc file in the future? (I'm not familiar with networks, so I apologise if this is a bad question.) |
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03:28:03 | <nicolas17> | cruller: you would need the TLS session keys too; Firefox can save them if you set the SSLKEYLOGFILE environment variable pointing to a filename, I don't know about Chrome |
03:28:18 | <pabs> | sounds like it was at some point possible to verify a TLS session https://tlsnotary.org/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29090604 |
03:28:43 | <nicolas17> | pabs: I think that's the one I remembered |
03:29:18 | <nicolas17> | multiparty computation between the client and the verifier when generating the session keys |
03:31:20 | <nicolas17> | so client and verifier need to cooperate in real time during the request, in a DPoS scenario that would be impractical |
03:37:23 | <cruller> | nicolas17: Thanks for your answer. Chrome and curl also seem to support SSLKEYLOGFILE. I'm not sure about wget. |
03:37:51 | <nicolas17> | I think Chrome and Firefox have their own TLS stack |
03:38:05 | <nicolas17> | but anything using OpenSSL (like curl and wget) should just work |
03:39:36 | <nicolas17> | Wireshark supports reading the keylog file and decrypting TLS packets |
03:42:17 | <nicolas17> | note that as mentioned earlier, unfortunately it's not possible to verify if the data is pristine from the server or you tampered with it |
03:42:29 | <steering> | JAA: I dunno psql well enough to do that grep qq |
03:42:51 | <steering> | AFAIK `select id from certificate, lateral x509_extensions(certificate) as e(e) where '1.3.6.1.4.1.11129.2.1.22' = e limit 1;` but timeout |
03:43:16 | <nicolas17> | so getting it into wayback machine has the same trust issues as any other .warc |
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03:55:08 | <cruller> | Regarding the integrity of WARC, is the only option at present to focus on "who created it and how"? |
03:57:29 | <cruller> | Also, is it possible to generate a warc file from an http(s) client that does certificate pinning? Sometimes I want to do that. |
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04:16:41 | <cruller> | I know some tricks for Android APK. https://docs.caido.io/tutorials/modifying_apk https://github.com/ReVanced/revanced-patches/commit/94ed738515aa6e1a1d346b85b54805e68e36f94c |
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04:28:41 | <steering> | cruller: yes, and no. |
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04:39:14 | <nicolas17> | !remindme 10h archive Safari 18.6 |
04:39:16 | <eggdrop> | [remind] ok, i'll remind you at 2025-07-31T14:39:14Z |
04:39:25 | <cruller> | I thought so. Things are not going well... |
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05:55:33 | <h2ibot> | TriangleDemon edited Deathwatch (+64, /* 2025 */): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=56648&oldid=56636 |
05:58:34 | <h2ibot> | TriangleDemon edited Flipnote Hatena (-58): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=56649&oldid=56551 |
06:10:35 | <h2ibot> | TriangleDemon edited Hatena (+491, /* Former */): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=56650&oldid=56572 |
06:11:36 | <h2ibot> | TriangleDemon edited Hatena (+2, /* Former */): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=56651&oldid=56650 |
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06:54:26 | <hexagonwin> | arkiver: i've finished running my first batch of random search keywords, found 488562 blogs in total https://transfer.archivete.am/inline/a3VjJ/tistory_blogs.txt (please ping when you're available) |
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08:25:57 | <Webuser616768> | Can I ask, is it possible to reverse-proxy warrior as a path rather than a subdomain? For example looking to do homelab.dev/warrior but it fails to load css/js or the info API call, etc. Tried many ways and cant get it to work. The closest I have is handle_path with caddy which loads everything but the info API call correctly |
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08:39:44 | <Webuser616768> | handle_path /warrior/* { |
08:39:44 | <Webuser616768> | reverse_proxy archiveteam-warrior:8001 |
08:39:44 | <Webuser616768> | } |
08:39:44 | <Webuser616768> | @warrior header Referer https://homelab/warrior/ |
08:39:44 | <Webuser616768> | handle @warrior { |
08:39:44 | <Webuser616768> | reverse_proxy archiveteam-warrior:8001 |
08:39:44 | <Webuser616768> | } |
08:39:50 | <Webuser616768> | This worked :) -- bit large but it works |
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08:41:30 | <Webuser616768> | hmm, but the xhr_streaming API call occassionally fails which freezes the web UI until a manual refresh |
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09:15:21 | <that_lurker> | Would have been a lot easier to just make a subdomain for it. Though if they used the local address then they would need a dns server |
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12:45:13 | <BlankEclair> | https://help.dropbox.com/installs/dropbox-passwords-discontinuation |
12:45:28 | <BlankEclair> | not quite sure how useful this is here considering the nature of the service, but i figure that i should drop it here anyway |
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13:05:49 | <justauser|m> | What's the status of Wikibot jobs on Tuxfamily? |
13:06:07 | <justauser|m> | Pad says some were submitted; what exactly? |
13:09:33 | <pabs> | the ones with a job id next to them were submitted |
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13:15:59 | <justauser|m> | Not that I can see any... |
13:16:23 | <justauser|m> | OK, I can see one. |
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14:39:16 | <eggdrop> | [remind] nicolas17: archive Safari 18.6 |
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17:36:37 | <h2ibot> | OrIdow6 edited The WARC Ecosystem (+30, /* Tools */ Add anchor to ArchiveWeb.page): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=56652&oldid=55507 |
17:38:37 | <h2ibot> | OrIdow6 created Webrecorder (+48, Redir to [[The WARC…): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?title=Webrecorder |
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17:53:39 | <h2ibot> | Cooljeanius edited Deathwatch (+73, /* 2025 */ copyedit): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=56654&oldid=56648 |
17:54:40 | <h2ibot> | Cooljeanius edited Flipnote Hatena (+16, copyedit): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=56655&oldid=56649 |
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17:58:40 | <h2ibot> | Cooljeanius edited Hatena (+64, /* Former */ copyedit): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=56656&oldid=56651 |
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19:01:50 | <h2ibot> | Manu edited Discourse (+55, /* Adding chrultrabook forum*/): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=56657&oldid=56219 |
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19:15:21 | <Guest> | a game website (roblox) released a blog post in 2024 about removing their group walls feature (essentially a stream of messages where users can communicate). |
19:15:21 | <Guest> | https://devforum.roblox.com/t/rdc24-what-we-announced/3148833#p-11334181-groups-becoming-communities-21 |
19:15:21 | <Guest> | i had originally made my own archiver in python to scrape this data but within the past few months it appears that roblox has rate limited my ip and tightened down security a lot on the api endpoints that are used to access the data. writing it was hell and i dont plan on doing it again. i also dont believe i have the expertise to do so based on |
19:15:21 | <Guest> | looking at the source code of some of archiveteam's past projects. i wanted to know if this is on the table to archive and if anyone is willing to do the work for it :) . |
19:17:13 | <Yakov> | yes please someone do something about this |
19:17:25 | <Yakov> | we should definitely be archiving group walls |
19:20:37 | <@JAA> | #robloxd I guess? |
19:21:02 | <Yakov> | > it appears that roblox has rate limited my ip and tightened down security a lot on the api endpoints that are used to access the data. |
19:21:08 | <Yakov> | is this fit for a warrior related project? |
19:45:24 | <@JAA> | Depends on the details, but in any case, #robloxd is our channel for all things Roblox. |
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21:23:12 | <nstrom|m> | just realized we're running projects twitch, glitch and itch |
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22:12:05 | <katia> | \w*itch |
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23:35:29 | <Webuser065658> | Hi |
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23:38:36 | <h2ibot> | TriangleDemon edited YouTube (-2, Vvideos manually submitted from SPN has been on…): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=56658&oldid=55208 |