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| 00:52:16 | <h2ibot> | Switchnode edited Framasoft (+6797, add remaining services from roadmap): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=53613&oldid=48152 |
| 00:52:36 | <thuban> | framaclic should also go into urlteam |
| 01:04:18 | <h2ibot> | Switchnode edited Framasoft (+840, add bare links for software (url template…): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=53614&oldid=53613 |
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| 01:13:19 | <h2ibot> | Thezt edited Deathwatch (+160, Add KCN Kyoto homepages): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=53615&oldid=53608 |
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| 01:31:20 | <eggdrop> | [tell] StarletCharlotte: [2024-10-20T13:12:27Z] <c3manu> you might be aware of this already, but there has been a project 'IA.BAK' until a few years back. the post mortem is pretty brief, but might still be insightful: https://wiki.archiveteam.org/index.php/INTERNETARCHIVE.BAK |
| 01:40:33 | <StarletCharlotte> | @c3manu: I have heard about that, yes. Though it's a bit difficult to figure out what to take from the post-mortem other than "the Internet Archive is massive (14 petabytes of unique, publicly accessible data, no idea about unique, private data), IA is trying to mirror their collection using things like IPFS, torrents, and FileCoin (though I am not confident that those would be able to store 14 petabytes of |
| 01:40:33 | <StarletCharlotte> | data, let alone be used to create a usable index and interface for it all). |
| 01:41:52 | <@JAA> | 14 PB? Cute. It's over 10 times that. |
| 01:42:26 | <@JAA> | Ah, unique and publicly accessible, maybe not. |
| 01:42:37 | <@JAA> | But this is also several years old now, so yeah. |
| 01:42:44 | <@JAA> | Anyway, #internetarchive.bak for that. |
| 01:44:37 | <nicolas17> | I recently tried to look up the current data size, and I thought the petabox webpage *might* have it |
| 01:44:41 | <nicolas17> | but archive.org was down |
| 01:44:42 | <StarletCharlotte> | @JAA: This was as of 2016, so I assume it's much more than that. |
| 01:44:57 | <nicolas17> | so I reflexively went to wayback machine but at the time it was also down T_T |
| 01:44:58 | <@JAA> | nicolas17: lol, same |
| 01:45:39 | <nicolas17> | seems there's 57PB of WBM alone |
| 01:45:43 | <nicolas17> | as of Dec 2021(!) |
| 01:45:51 | <StarletCharlotte> | Oh god. |
| 01:46:01 | <StarletCharlotte> | I'm REALLY worried about IA as a central point of failure. |
| 01:46:03 | <@JAA> | 150 PiB of unique data as of end of 2023 |
| 01:46:17 | <@JAA> | Er, not quite, 146 |
| 01:46:18 | <nicolas17> | does "total used storage: 212PB" include the redundancy? |
| 01:49:08 | <StarletCharlotte> | Is it even possible to back all of that up in a decentralized way and create a usable index and interface for it all? |
| 01:49:35 | <StarletCharlotte> | IA can't even let you search the Wayback Machine by keyword. |
| 01:49:43 | <nicolas17> | I wonder how big the index alone would be |
| 01:49:50 | <nicolas17> | index/metadata/etc |
| 01:50:07 | <@JAA> | No, because a lot of it isn't publicly accessible. The parts that are, sure, for $$$$$. |
| 01:50:45 | <StarletCharlotte> | A lot of the Wayback Machine isn't publicly accessible? I was talking about searching the parts that are. |
| 01:50:56 | <@JAA> | We're talking about IA, not WBM. |
| 01:51:32 | <@JAA> | Mirroring things through the WBM would be a huge mess, woefully incomplete, etc. |
| 01:52:00 | <StarletCharlotte> | Okay, well would it even be possible to back up all of the publicly accessible data, which I can only assume makes up the vast majority of the 146 PiB, in a decentralized manner? |
| 01:52:15 | <@JAA> | $$$$$$ |
| 01:52:34 | <@JAA> | There's no technical challenge here that can't be solved by throwing money at it. |
| 01:53:10 | <StarletCharlotte> | Money that most people don't have, and of course there's the matter of avoiding single points of failure. |
| 01:53:47 | <StarletCharlotte> | I was thinking torrent, filecoin, or IPFS levels of decentralized, not "several independent organizations with backups of the data" decentralized. |
| 01:54:03 | <@JAA> | The former isn't decentralised without the latter. |
| 01:54:20 | <nicolas17> | IA creates .torrents for its items |
| 01:54:31 | <StarletCharlotte> | I mean yeah, and a lot of them don't have seeders. |
| 01:54:38 | <StarletCharlotte> | At least not outside of IA itself. |
| 01:54:42 | <@JAA> | Exactly |
| 01:54:52 | <@JAA> | So you still need a mirror externally anyway for it to be worth anything. |
| 01:54:53 | <StarletCharlotte> | Exactly my point as well. |
| 01:54:55 | <nicolas17> | when the testflight archiveteam project was taken down from IA for legal reasons, people rushed to get the torrents |
| 01:55:18 | <nicolas17> | at least 3 of the 26 torrents are now dead, and the ones that work seem to have a single seeder |
| 01:55:20 | <@JAA> | It's just one method how such a mirror could work, but it doesn't change anything about the challenge of acquiring enough money. |
| 01:55:33 | <StarletCharlotte> | External from the decentralized network? |
| 01:55:55 | <nicolas17> | the hard part is figuring out who stores what, ensuring all the data always has at least N copies at all times, etc |
| 01:56:06 | <imer> | someone has to store it, so someone has to pay for the storage & having the storage accessible |
| 01:56:08 | <nicolas17> | the protocol to do the data transfer (like bittorrent) is the easy part |
| 01:56:08 | <StarletCharlotte> | I'm trying to figure out how a decentralized network could work as a redundancy for an organization in the event that organization(s) fail for one reason or another. |
| 01:56:16 | <StarletCharlotte> | Not the other way around. |
| 01:56:48 | <StarletCharlotte> | So that it's less vulnerable to, say, financial failure, government regulations, etc. |
| 01:56:53 | <@JAA> | Even the coordination part is easy compared to the money problem. |
| 01:57:16 | <nicolas17> | it seems the IA.BAK project worked on that question for months, you're not gonna "figure it out" today :P |
| 01:57:35 | <@JAA> | The question has been pondered for years if not decades by now. |
| 01:57:44 | <StarletCharlotte> | That's horrifying... |
| 01:57:45 | <@JAA> | Well, at least 1-2 decades. |
| 01:57:48 | <StarletCharlotte> | And depressing... |
| 01:57:52 | <@JAA> | Welcome to the club. |
| 01:58:02 | <StarletCharlotte> | I'm going to go curl up into a ball now. |
| 01:58:22 | <nicolas17> | one of these dead torrents has 1 peer who has 3% of the data |
| 01:58:40 | <nicolas17> | I have been downloading that 3% of data for a few days now, since they upload to me at max 5KB/s |
| 01:58:45 | <StarletCharlotte> | oof |
| 02:01:04 | <TheTechRobo> | Sounds like the limits I used to set on my torrenting. :P |
| 02:01:25 | <TheTechRobo> | Back when I had less than a megabit of upload speed. |
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| 02:12:53 | <youbanana> | Are you guys just gonna shutdown archivebot when its 100% full? we only have 870gb left |
| 02:13:34 | <nicolas17> | it will basically shut down itself ._. |
| 02:13:49 | <youbanana> | Or are you going to take something out of the Valhalla page and get an extra person to temp store some files |
| 02:14:00 | <youbanana> | I assume you're just gonna let it shut down |
| 02:14:28 | <nicolas17> | nobody has given concrete answers to that, positive or negative |
| 02:16:04 | <nicolas17> | currency exchange rate bullshit wouldn't let *me* be the one to rent a server and get it reimbursed |
| 02:19:55 | <youbanana> | theres the fortress of solitude but JAA said it would only last a day or 2 so its not a great solution |
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| 02:24:37 | <nicolas17> | if someone here went and rented a server with 10TB of disk, can it be set up as a target? |
| 02:27:52 | <@JAA> | That's what would only last a day or two. |
| 02:28:24 | <@JAA> | In fact, much less, because there's like 7 TiB of backlog, too. |
| 02:28:45 | <@JAA> | If there are any news, you'll see them in the AB channel. |
| 02:29:21 | <nicolas17> | can we bribe brewster for archiveteam-exclusive S3 access /s |
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| 02:31:08 | <steering> | one obvious problem w/r/t IA backup is hidden items |
| 02:31:40 | <steering> | but even if you exclude that... storage is expensive, keeping it running is even more expensive |
| 02:33:21 | <steering> | there are plenty of distributed storage solutions out there that would work but who's this mystical person with TBs upon TBs of free space that you need 10,000 of |
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| 07:14:50 | <ggggg> | I would like to archive https://maze.virtuworld.net/ |
| 07:15:50 | <pabs> | we currently can't archive things until IA is back online |
| 07:16:11 | <pabs> | is there a specific reason for archiving it? |
| 07:16:11 | <ggggg> | Ok |
| 07:17:52 | <ggggg> | It was gone |
| 07:19:13 | <pabs> | it seems to be online here |
| 07:24:37 | <ggggg> | At least from September to yesterday it wasn't, now it's back, I don't want it to disappear forever since I don't see any activity |
| 07:25:43 | <eggdrop> | [remind] OrIdow6: niconino\] |
| 07:27:37 | <@OrIdow6> | !remindme 1d niconino |
| 07:27:38 | <eggdrop> | [remind] ok, i'll remind you at 2024-10-22T07:27:37Z |
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| 08:16:33 | <@OrIdow6> | I'd like to propose that "Thanks, we know about" be eliminated and we just give the names of the thigns shutting down |
| 08:17:33 | <@OrIdow6> | It (accurately to its origin) feels frustrated with the people coming to tell us the thing, which I suspect feels hostile to them |
| 08:17:47 | <@OrIdow6> | *names of the things shutting down and their channels |
| 08:30:54 | <@rewby> | Not sure if that will fit in the title. |
| 08:31:17 | <@rewby> | Oh wait, if only for the ones we'd put in a "thanks we know" then yes it'd fit |
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| 10:17:14 | <vix5110_> | Hey, getting this error on the URL project. Normal ? |
| 10:17:15 | <vix5110_> | AssertionError: Your time 1729392325.6372569 is more than 180 seconds off of 1729505795.318. |
| 10:24:34 | <@rewby> | Hi! That usually means your system's clock is wrong |
| 10:33:38 | <vix5110_> | No, it is synced properly... Maybe its because Im not in the same timezone as the server ifk |
| 10:33:49 | <vix5110_> | No, it is synced properly... Maybe its because Im not in the same timezone as the server idk |
| 10:35:27 | <Meroje> | you can do a quick drift check on time.is |
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| 11:04:05 | <vix5110_> | Im only .3 seconds late... its weird because it didnt do that before |
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| 11:37:12 | <@rewby> | How are you running the project? |
| 11:37:18 | <@rewby> | In a VM, in docker or what? |
| 11:37:26 | <@rewby> | If it's within a VM at all, check if the VM is desynced to teh host |
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| 11:42:57 | <Jake> | Out of curiosity is anyone going from here going to either IA event this week? |
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| 17:53:10 | <h2ibot> | Manu edited Discourse (+43, /* Add Syncthing discourse */): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=53616&oldid=53396 |
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| 18:40:18 | <h2ibot> | Nitoducci edited URLTeam (+36, updated s.wikicharlie.cl with new links.): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=53617&oldid=53500 |
| 18:42:19 | <h2ibot> | Arkiver uploaded File:Google-icon.webp: https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?title=File%3AGoogle-icon.webp |
| 18:43:15 | <katia> | nice webp |
| 19:08:07 | <steering> | OrIdow6: your niconino reminder probably got dropped |
| 19:09:33 | <nicolas17> | !remindme 3d check if Xcode 16.1b3 is archived, delete Backblaze copy |
| 19:09:33 | <eggdrop> | [remind] ok, i'll remind you at 2024-10-24T19:09:33Z |
| 19:16:26 | <nicolas17> | !remindme 1w archive Xcode 16.1, delete RC from Backblaze |
| 19:16:27 | <eggdrop> | [remind] ok, i'll remind you at 2024-10-28T19:16:26Z |
| 19:20:07 | <nicolas17> | !help |
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| 20:52:42 | <@OrIdow6> | steering: Thx |
| 20:52:50 | <@OrIdow6> | !remindme 4h niconino |
| 20:52:51 | <eggdrop> | [remind] ok, i'll remind you at 2024-10-22T00:52:51Z |
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| 21:01:50 | <@OrIdow6> | logs.kiska.pw is down? |
| 21:02:39 | <@JAA> | Has been for a while, yes. |
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| 21:14:03 | <steering> | 1728604309 [10/10/24 17:51:49]< kiska> hackint.logs.kiska.pw was killed by kiska trying to downscale telegram workers :D |
| 21:14:14 | <steering> | rippitty rip :( |
| 21:14:33 | <steering> | if fireonlive was still here he would've had a replacement up by now :( |
| 21:16:54 | <katia> | fireonlive++ |
| 21:16:56 | <eggdrop> | [karma] 'fireonlive' now has 639 karma! |
| 21:22:01 | | @JAA waves at atirclog. |
| 21:22:21 | <@JAA> | The web interface just isn't publicised yet because it's half-broken for reasons outside my control. |
| 21:26:53 | <that_lurker> | do we need logs? |
| 21:27:47 | <@JAA> | I'm poking again to get that fixed. |
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