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00:28:32<Maakuth>Hmm, how about the numerical redirects that are predictable? I suppose ArchiveBot will fill them in on time, so no need to generate them
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05:33:33<Maakuth>derivation appears to be done, at least no status visible on the archive page. but still I can click through threads and end up on "not archived" page. for example https://web.archive.org/web/20220411192221/https://murobbs.muropaketti.com/threads/maailman-kenties-kalleinta-peliae-voi-kokeilla-ilmaiseksi-avaruuden-pimeydestae-paeaesee-nauttimaan-viikon-verran.1442456/
05:34:00<Maakuth>is there some other step between derivation and snapshot visibility in wayback machine?
05:43:02<Jake>Yes, there's an additional step afterwards.
05:47:29<Sanqui>yeah the "ingestion" process into WBM can take time
05:50:58<Sanqui|m>BTW, now that the bridge is back in full operation (the failure was caused by an expired certificate, and I understand it shouldn't happen again), here's a reminder that hackint.org is also available from the Matrix network, and should you wish to use a client on this side, I offer a "Space" which groups together Archive Team main & project channels in an organized manner. https://matrix.to/#/#archive-team:matrix.org
05:52:06<Sanqui>anyways, the murobbs AT job is doing well too, only 300k remaining!
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06:16:26<Maakuth>Sanqui: s/AT/AB/ ?
06:16:38<Sanqui>AB yes sorry
06:18:02<Maakuth>well, that one should fill in the redirects, media and outlinks, I suppose?
06:18:59<Sanqui>some of them, but I also made the outlink ignores somewhat aggressive. I do believe JAA also put outlinks through #// though. Maybe we do need a wiki page to track this work at this point XD
06:23:02<Maakuth>the threads go back a decade, so too late for many outlinks anyway
06:23:41<Maakuth>here's the successor forum btw, should we take it too? https://bbs.io-tech.fi/
06:24:33<Sanqui>yes -- and any other major (or not) finnish forums you can think of
06:24:52<Sanqui>I'm happy to manage the archivebot jobs for them if you make a list
06:25:07<Maakuth>should we go for a single wiki page?
06:25:27<Sanqui>that would work
06:26:45<Sanqui>I did a mini-project for discovering and archiving estonian forums last year lol
06:26:54<Sanqui>but I didn't put the list on the wiki :(
06:28:32<Maakuth>I registered on the wiki. should I just create another project page then?
06:29:11<Sanqui>yeah, if you make just a bullet point list I can try to put it in shape
06:29:42<Maakuth>I have some mediawiki background myself, but no idea of local policies of course
06:30:13<Sanqui>the project template is more geared towards individual sites
06:30:18<Maakuth>ok
06:30:41<Sanqui>I "maintain" a template like this myself https://wiki.archiveteam.org/index.php?title=Template:Czech_websites
06:30:57<Sanqui>but I've sorta moved onto a "move fast break things" mentality with my own jobs lol
06:36:01<Maakuth>ok, I put just the two forums there. is anonymous editing allowed there? I would like to enlist some finns to help
06:39:53<Sanqui>nope, all mediawikis I know of have problems with spam
06:40:09<Sanqui>you might as well start an etherpad or something and then copy it yourself
06:41:33<Maakuth>ok
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06:54:32<Maakuth>https://wiki.archiveteam.org/index.php?title=Finnish_Web in modqueue, I've dug some forums there and will add more
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07:13:39<Sanqui>Maakuth: cool, I'm not an admin on the wiki so I'll have to wait until your account gets approved
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07:28:49<Maakuth>Sanqui: http://muistio.tieke.fi/p/suomifoorumit here's the etherpad if you want to queue something already
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07:54:34<Maakuth>about 70 found already :)
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08:36:49<Sanqui>Maakuth: awesome, love these regional fora, collections of these are hard to get without people resources
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10:22:08<Maakuth>fun to see AB chew through suomi24 sitemaps. every item takes a dozen seconds and adds something like 40k items to remaining
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12:44:29<msrn_>finnish imageboards would be a good target, ylilauta.org tries their hardest to block every archival effort.
12:47:19<Sanqui>we (archive team) don't generally dedicate our time to imageboards, they're a lot of trouble lol, but there are other groups
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12:48:55<Sanqui>btw I noticed in 2017 Aoede started a job for keskustelu.suomi24.fi without outlinks and had to abort it ten days later probably because it was so massive haha, will be interesting
12:49:42<Maakuth>yeah, I think that's the very largest finnish forum
12:50:20<mikael>I sometime tried to wget some ylilauta threads but they are doing to javascript checking background
12:51:05<Maakuth>trying to be ephemeral somehow I suppose
12:56:42<Sanqui>btw - I'm booked for a 1h research interview with New Design Congress, the people also behind Webrecorder, Browsertrix etc. I'd be interested to be briefed on Archive Team's opinion on their projects (especially from JAA), so I can make it as constructive as possible
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15:17:09<@JAA>Sanqui: Since it's all based on warcio, it has significant data accuracy issues, and apparently the authors don't seem to care about that at all (given that they *intentionally* introduced mangling a while back and I had to convince them to even see it as a problem)...
15:17:28<@JAA>Nothing happened in almost a year since I reported those, so yeah.
15:19:55<pcr>https://github.com/webrecorder/warcio/issues/created_by/JustAnotherArchivist
15:20:21<@JAA>To say I'm not a fan of warcio is an understatement at this point. :-)
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15:34:15<Sanqui>JAA: right, thanks! I'll pass on the concern and let's hope something beneficial comes from it
15:34:39<Sanqui>ugh, all these issues just make me want to double down on raw packet captures. i.e. pcapng
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15:35:04<Sanqui>even though parsing them with wireshark has been less-than-fun, at least you can be 100% certain the data is correct, forever
15:36:16<@JAA>Yeah, not very usable though.
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15:36:28<Sanqui>only a question of tooling.
15:36:47<Sanqui>and evidently, there is *still* need for new tooling
15:37:02<@JAA>Yes, some of which I'm working on. :-)
15:37:36<@JAA>And then I'll try to push for several things in the WARC spec.
15:37:49<Sanqui>the discord thesis has given me an excellent opportunity to play with pcapng files, so I'm seeing all the pain points right now. They're annoying, but fixable
15:37:51<@JAA>It's a slow-moving body.
15:38:56<Sanqui>the webrecorder group is working on a WACZ format: https://webrecorder.net/2021/01/18/wacz-format-1-0.html
15:39:05<Sanqui>I hope we don't end up in a situation with competing formats
15:40:52<Sanqui>(though as a higher-fidelity format I don't think pcapng can truly compete)
15:41:00<@JAA>That's basically just a ZIP that packs up a WARC, a CDX, and some other index files.
15:42:22<@JAA>I suppose it's slightly more convenient for a user as you only have to download one file instead of two or more, but I don't see any technical advantages.
15:44:30<Sanqui>anyway, call's scheduled for friday, so if you think of anything else to pass on to the group, lemme know, I hope to make the best of it. As I have learned during my work at the Czechoslovak game archive, cross-organization exchange of stances, procedures, and general awareness tends to be lacking, so I hope to maybe represent Archive Team and build a bridge :)
15:45:19<@JAA>arkiver may have some thoughts as well. ^^^
15:45:38<@JAA>(Start reading at 12:56.)
15:46:46<@JAA>And yeah, definitely agreed on the cross-org exchange. I've chatted a bit with people via IIPC before but am not really active there.
15:47:09<IDK>Someone told me that wayback machine deletes some duplicates, does it apply to archiveteam's capture
15:47:26<IDK>found that on wikipedia
15:47:52<@JAA>lolno
15:47:56<Sanqui>IIPC's a whole other group. That goes into my knowledge base, thank you
15:48:08<IDK>I see, citation needed
15:48:15<IDK>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayback_Machine
15:48:33<@JAA>Yeah, the Webrecorder people are also in IIPC though, along with UK Web Archive and various others.
15:48:53<Sanqui>"Deleting duplicates" is a near-oxymoron. You can deduplicate without losing data.
15:49:33<@JAA>'Only the content creator can decide where their content is published or duplicated, so the Archive would have to delete pages from its system upon request of the creator.'
15:49:46<@JAA>That's something entirely different than deduping archives.
15:49:56<Sanqui>That's copyright law.
15:50:00<@JAA>Yup
15:51:10<@JAA>And since IA is a library, they can't actually be forced to delete it, I think. But they can be forced to cease distribution, i.e. WBM exclusions and blocking access to the WARCs.
15:52:37<@JAA>(Well, they could be forced to delete things, but I'd imagine that'd have to go through courts etc.)
15:57:10<IDK>Under uses/limitations: Starting in April 2018, administrative staff members of the Wayback Machine's archive team have enforced the Quarter month rule, by occasionally deleting time intervals of 23 days or 39 days (3/4 and 5/4 of a month, respectively), to reduce the queue size.**[citation needed]**
15:57:50<IDK>I think someone thinks that the page they archived was gone, but it usually pop up a few days later
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15:59:36<@JAA>ಠ_ಠ
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17:08:13<duce1337>archive this https://samples.vx-underground.org/samples/Blocks/
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17:15:07<@JAA>duce1337: Reason?
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17:17:40<duce1337>JAA: just for sake of saving, like most things on internet
17:21:38<@JAA>Well, it's huge and essentially a mirror...
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17:34:36<Maakuth>The murobbs snapshot appears to be live in wayback machine, nice 🙂
17:36:17<h2ibot>Maakuth created Finnish Web (+856, Created page with "Project to crawl through…): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?title=Finnish%20Web
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19:29:38<h2ibot>Maakuth edited Finnish Web (+2931, added a lot of Finnish forums): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=48466&oldid=48465
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19:32:31<Maakuth>okay Sanqui, these should get AB nice and busy for a while :)
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21:37:56<plums>Hi is someone here
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21:55:13<h2ibot>Maakuth edited Finnish Web (+0, link formatting): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=48467&oldid=48466
21:55:14<h2ibot>Michaelblob edited WikiTeam (+265): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=48468&oldid=48326
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