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06:56:47<mgrandi>@JAA it might be done? https://mobile.twitter.com/gvanrossum/status/1513221305394339845 posted that today
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08:29:42<@OrIdow6^2>From #ab
08:29:43<@OrIdow6^2><mikael> Requesting the archival of the biggest finnish tech forums murobbs. Closes in 2022-04-14, and contains messages from over 20 years. https://murobbs.muropaketti.com/
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09:09:25<@OrIdow6^2>Sanqui: Who is Maakuth?
09:09:40<Sanqui>OrIdow6^2: the hackint matrix bridge is dropping messages -_-
09:10:10<Sanqui>they also requested https://murobbs.muropaketti.com/
09:10:23<@OrIdow6^2>Are they in #at in the Matrix parallel universe?
09:10:36<Sanqui>yeah
09:10:59<@OrIdow6^2>Oh, I see
09:11:15<Sanqui>I'll forward their messages here
09:11:18<@OrIdow6^2>Not listed in the user list there for me, so it might not be messages per se
09:11:42<Sanqui>well, something is definitely up
09:11:53<Sanqui>because I don't see our chat here on the matrix side any more either
09:12:08<Sanqui|m>test
09:12:18<Sanqui>this is ridiculous
09:13:33<Sanqui|m>Maakuth: nope, your message didn't appear on irc, and I can't see our discussion with OrIdow6^2 here. Something is wrong
09:13:49<Sanqui|m>Probably best to join hackint.org irc directly for now, sorry for the trouble.
09:14:47<Sanqui|m>np, feel free to ping me then
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09:40:27<Sanqui>Maakuth: good to see you here, I pray for the day cross protocol bridges work reliably...
09:41:19<Maakuth>yep... or maybe everyone joins the matrix :) anyway, about murobbs
09:41:50<Sanqui>so I started an ArchiveBot job for murobbs, you can observe it go on http://dashboard.at.ninjawedding.org/3?showNicks=1
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09:42:40<Sanqui>set no external links and put some extra ignores on it, seems to be on the first level of threads, which is good
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09:43:02<Sanqui>but 3 days is not good, so we may need some extra help here
09:43:11<Maakuth>very cool. does archivebot feed Warrior?
09:43:20<mikael>warrior job would be good
09:43:21<Sanqui>nope, unfortunately AB is a completely separate project
09:43:36<Maakuth>ok. are warrior jobs hard to create?
09:43:49<Maakuth>I'm fairly sure I could mobilize a lot of Finns to run warriors for this cause
09:44:16<Sanqui>medium difficulty? I've never made one :)
09:44:45<Maakuth>I'm a software engineer myself, but I should be working now... if someone has experience of creating warrior jobs, it would be the best given the timetable
09:44:58<Sanqui>arkiver could probably help
09:44:59<mikael>In the email they state that after 2022-04-14 they are going to preserve user data and messages for 3 months before removing, for law purposes. But we have no idea if they are preserving them publicly in read-only format.
09:45:27<Maakuth>maybe I should give them a call
09:46:53<Maakuth>or email. let's see
09:47:20<Sanqui>it's hard for me to estimate how long the archivebot job would take but I'd say week+; imho, the ideal situation would be the site staying online for long enough for the ab job to complete, because it's 1. technologically the most straightfowrward for us and 2. it gets conveniently ingested directly into archive.org's wayback machine (and 3. doesn't ddos their servers)
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09:48:16<Sanqui>but maybe somebody with warrior experience will chime in
09:48:32<Maakuth>makes sense. does it use some specific user agent? if I find the owner collaborative, I might be able to persuade them to allowlist the UA
09:48:34<Sanqui>I'm EU; it's still night in the US
09:49:00<Sanqui>yeah it labels itself as ArchiveBot by default
09:49:11<Maakuth>ok, let's see what they think
09:49:25<Sanqui>they could set the site to read-only too, most forums have a simple switch for that
09:49:52<Maakuth>that would be the nice option yes
09:49:53<Sanqui>another option would be to get a sanitized db dump but, for preservation that has downsides because the site won't appear in wayback machine
09:49:58<mikael>afaik its using Xenforo 1.5
09:50:28<Sanqui>also paging rewby who has experience with forums
09:52:26<Sanqui>another option is #// because there is a sitemap (though I think the sitemap only links first pages)
09:52:38<Sanqui>#// is a warrior project for urls without recursion
09:55:04<Maakuth>clever name, easy to google and so :)
09:57:06<Sanqui>archiveteam has a penchant for vexing project names
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09:57:40<Maakuth>I noticed the project naming guide mandated humor
10:25:34<Maakuth>I could sponsor some extra instances to back archivebot if it helps get this done faster
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10:26:57<Maakuth>I could run one myself, but the wiki says that newcomers need not apply (I understand, wouldn't want FSB goons to participate). but if Sanqui you or someone already can add nodes, I can get you some public cloud instance to run it on
10:28:37<Sanqui>my understanding is that at this time, volunteers are more appreciated to run warrior nodes, or contribute time or money (https://opencollective.com/archiveteam). archivebot instances is quite tricky to maintain
10:29:31<Maakuth>yeah, I understand and I'm already running a warrior. I just mean this specific instance, how to get murobbs asap
10:30:03<Sanqui>archivebot isn't distributed, there's no logic for it to split a job across multiple nodes unfortunately :/
10:30:46<Maakuth>ah
10:38:35<Maakuth>well, let's see if the owner confirms that the messages are visible read-only for a while. if they don't confirm, let's check with the 'muricans if we could make a warrior job on time
10:39:24<Sanqui>yeah I have a lot on my plate atm, the ab job + information is best I can provide
10:39:33<Sanqui>heading out for lunch, bbl
10:39:45<Maakuth>thank you
11:10:46<@JAA>mgrandi: Well, at the very least, I see that not all issues have a reference to the GitHub issue even though they were imported. So I assumed that something was still running. But maybe that's a bug instead. Now to figure out where to report that...
11:12:35<mgrandi>They have a timeline page
11:14:10<mgrandi>https://discuss.python.org/t/github-issues-migration-status-update/14573
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11:15:18<mgrandi>Looks like they are gonna work on that today it seems
11:15:57<@JAA>Ah yeah, good. :-)
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11:54:09<Maakuth>bad news, murobbs will go down on 14th for good, no read only access even
11:54:41<Maakuth>so warrior time it is. I suppose US should be waking up?
11:57:45<@JAA>Hmm, they're on AWS with a load balancer. I assume they can handle quite a bit of traffic?
11:58:10<Maakuth>I think so too and they said the archival is okay for them
11:58:34<@JAA>That sounds promising. Let's see if they'll regret that. :-P
11:58:45<Maakuth>the person who responded said to get in touch if we hit some limits
11:58:52<@JAA>Excellent
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12:01:50<Maakuth>JAA, so you're _on it_? let me know if I can help. I'll make a CTA to get proper resources for Warrior tonight
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12:48:50<Sanqui>gonna make the murobbs job skip urls like https://murobbs.muropaketti.com/posts/1714334977/ because they're predictable redirects
12:49:06<Sanqui>you have 5 minutes to disagree with me
12:52:14<@JAA>++, we don't have time for that noise.
12:59:57<Maakuth>sorry, this webchat thing sucks hard... i'll try to come up with better irc connection later. i'll follow this channel if there's something I can do to help, I have not seen possible messages aimed at me
13:01:23<@JAA>Hmm, are there subforums that require logging in?
13:01:46<Sanqui>napkin calculation says the job might just finish in 2 days
13:02:20<Maakuth>JAA, I don't think so. let me check from somebody who frequents the forum
13:02:53<@JAA>I'm seeing lots of thread IDs that aren't accessible. Random example: https://murobbs.muropaketti.com/threads/1352712/
13:03:04<@JAA>But that might just be how they handle spam or similar.
13:03:07<Sanqui>if I presume 3m remaining and a speed of 2.2k fetched per minute (with ignores) XD
13:04:00<Maakuth>i'll make an account and try
13:06:19<Maakuth>I see the same logged in, probably it's hidden or removed topic
13:06:26<Sanqui>JAA: do ignored urls show up in logs so they can be derived later? I'm contemplating ignoring imgur because it hates us anyways (tons of 403)
13:07:04<@JAA>Sanqui: Yes, all ignores are logged.
13:07:20<@JAA>Maakuth: Thanks
13:07:25<@JAA>I'll just ignore those then.
13:08:58<@JAA>Their servers are slowing down surprisingly quickly, but shouldn't be an issue.
13:10:55<@JAA>Looks like I should easily be able to grab all thread pages (just HTML) in 6-7 hours, assuming the rate I got now on a little test will hold.
13:13:26<Maakuth>ok, there are probably others trying to get their share...
13:14:05<Maakuth>if you can set some specific UA, I can communicate that to staff, so they can allowlist it. I suppose they might implement ratelimits soon if everyone and their cousin tries to mirror it
13:17:32<@JAA>That slowdown might actually be an artefact of how I measure response times, not entirely sure. I do hit them with 90 req/s though. I use a browser UA, but it should be quite unique by now since it's from an old Firefox version.
13:17:49<Sanqui>subjectively, it looks like AB slowed down a bit too.
13:18:59<Maakuth>what tool are you using if I may ask? not warrior?
13:21:35<@JAA>qwarc, a custom tool I wrote a while ago for situations just like this. It lets me archive at very high request rates with little resources. I've done 2k req/s before with it from just a couple machines.
13:21:55<Maakuth>very nice
13:22:41<@JAA>Only works when there is no significant rate limiting since the traffic's all coming from a single IP (without iptables routing magic).
13:23:24<Maakuth>and you have it running on some AWS instance?
13:24:38<@JAA>AWS is way too expensive. It's an OVH server (well, SYS actually).
13:25:26<Maakuth>makes sense
13:26:08<Maakuth>ok, that example url from above is not quite deleted thread, as we have an example of that too. maybe it's hidden or something, but it's inaccessible even for logged in users nevertheless
13:26:31<Maakuth>http://murobbs.muropaketti.com/threads/skrollin-virallinen-foorumi-on-siirtynyt.1340012/ here's a confirmed hidden on with a bit different message
13:27:03<@JAA>Yeah, seeing lots of those as well, on most thread IDs in fact.
13:28:23<@JAA>The ratio is about 3:2:1 of 404s, 200s, and 403s.
13:28:33<Maakuth>ugh, I meant that one was confirmed removed
13:28:36<@JAA>(And the 200s include thread pagination.)
13:28:54<Maakuth>i'll check with an actual user if that seems expected...
13:29:17<Sanqui>JAA, are you seeding with the sitemaps?
13:29:26<Sanqui>I think the sitemaps may only have accessible topics, and AB is hitting those first
13:29:33<@JAA>Sanqui: I'm bruteforcing all thread IDs.
13:29:39<Sanqui>makes sense
13:30:31<Maakuth>ah, just numerically bruteforcing? then shouldn't be a surprise to get a lot of errors, assuming they don't recycle spam thread ids
13:31:31<Maakuth>so 404 would be deleted, 403 hidden
13:34:53<Sanqui|m>test 123
13:35:24<Maakuth>visible in webirc at least
13:36:19<Sanqui|m>the first message of yours that I see in the chatlog is "I could sponsor some extra instances to back archivebot if it helps get this done faster", so the bridge probably recovered then
13:38:06<Maakuth>I have two hackint connections in this webirc tab... I don't know how to close only one of them... hopefully I'll have a better solution for it later
13:39:10<Sanqui|m>would be nice if you tried leaving and re-joining from the matrix side and then sending a message
13:41:48<Sanqui|m>nope no good :(
13:41:51<Sanqui|m>that's disappointing
13:42:17<Sanqui|m>and really frustrating, I'll have to monitor the matrix side for potential new people
13:42:32<Sanqui|m>the nick conflict shouldn't be a problem, you should show up on IRC as Maakuth|m
13:42:39<Maakuth>anyone you could connect from hackint side?
13:42:51<Sanqui>this is the hackint side
13:42:57<Sanqui>oh, you mean hackint staff
13:43:04<Sanqui>yeah I wrote to #hackint, all I can do
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13:59:36<nyany>6:04:12 AM <Sanqui> ok damn the matrix bridge seems to be dropping some messages
13:59:39<nyany>wanted to reply to this
13:59:43<nyany>it does taht quite a bit actually
13:59:58<Sanqui>first time I ran into it :(
14:04:53<h2ibot>Petchea edited Tumblr (+151): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=48462&oldid=48458
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15:29:17<pabs>Perforce buys Puppet https://puppet.com/blog/an-open-letter-from-the-ceo-of-puppet/
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16:31:26<@JAA>My MuroBBS qwarc grab is about 50% done.
16:36:49<@JAA>And looks like the BPO-GH linking is complete now. Will throw into AB shortly. (Cc mgrandi)
16:37:37<mgrandi>Cool, thanks
16:38:36<@JAA>Might also be worth grabbing https://bugs.python.org/issue?@action=redirect&bpo=47120 for all IDs. That's used for 'bpo-#' links on GitHub.
16:39:49<@JAA>(Well, only in some places, actually, but anyway.)
16:44:20<mgrandi>I assume it will retrieve all the redirects, if you go to the BPO link and then it will redirect to @action=redirect and then GitHub, right?
16:44:42<mgrandi>Or is that not part of the redirect chain
16:44:56<@JAA>Is the @action=redirect URL linked anywhere directly on BPO?
16:45:21<@JAA>As far as I can see, it links directly to the GH issue everywhere.
16:47:08<@JAA>And AB wouldn't follow any links on the GitHub page because that's considered off-site. It doesn't care that they go back to BPO.
16:47:35<@JAA>(Also, the link might not always be present immediately on the GitHub page; I had to go to the commit page in some cases at least.)
17:01:24<DigitalDragon>matrix bridge problems?
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17:09:22<DigitalDragon>test
17:09:23<h2ibot>Nemo bis edited Deathwatch (+184, /* 2022 */ https://murobbs.muropaketti.com/…): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=48463&oldid=48445
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17:12:47<DigitalDragon>yeah it seems like it's dropping messages
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17:13:05<DigitalDragon>or i'm just impatient
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17:36:16<Jake>Yes, we believe there's some problems with the Matrix bridge.
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18:09:33<h2ibot>JustAnotherArchivist edited Deathwatch (+152, /* 2022 */ Add Miniclip): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=48464&oldid=48463
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18:28:51DigitalDragon uploaded an image: (40KiB) < https://matrix.hackint.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/jLAZrYlzkEktscbdRtVxmEME/ima_2d921b5.jpeg >
18:28:51<DigitalDragon>Maakuth|m: Yeah my own testing has confirmed
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18:31:27<Maakuth|m>Seems to work 🙂
18:31:27<Maakuth|m>Oh, ok
18:31:27<Maakuth|m>I'll do it when I'm back at my desk, only matrix client here with me at lunch
18:31:27<Maakuth|m>testing 123
18:31:27<Maakuth|m>it doesn't even see the nick conflict :S
18:31:27<Maakuth|m>Makes sense
18:31:27<Maakuth|m><DigitalDragon> "matrix bridge problems?" <- Yeah, it's totally broken
18:33:13<Sanqui>Maakuth: there we go :D
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18:48:32<mgrandi>@JAA: the @redirect might be part of the roundup (software that powers bpo) thing, I see @search and stuff, but if they keep the old bpo in really it might be fine the way it is for now
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19:06:53<@JAA>mgrandi: Uh, yes, it's part of a roundup extension (specifically in https://github.com/psf/bpo-tracker-cpython ). My point is that those URLs should be archived to keep the links working. That requires extra action on top of the general recursive crawl if there are no internal links to those URLs on BPO (which seems to be the case).
19:11:13<mgrandi>Ah yeah, I did a search on the source and I don't see any references to the string "redirect"
19:15:06<mgrandi>Also in the pages I checked I can only find a few references to the GitHub issue number and those are the "history" chart at the bottom and the banner saying "this has been migrated"
19:15:38<mgrandi>Where did you find the @redirect url? It's possible they will have a full redirect some day but didn't enable it yet?
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19:16:45<@JAA>E.g. here at the top of the commit message: https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/2a5181829af394b82e8e8c917183c709ee72a2b7
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19:39:57<mgrandi>Is that an option in GitHub to have like a regex thing to add links to commit messages like that?
19:40:16<@JAA>Apparently so. It used to just link to the issue on BPO, I think.
19:40:53<@JAA>It's only active in that repo though.
19:42:35<@JAA>Might be something that you need to ask GitHub for specifically.
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20:11:04<Maakuth_>hey, now i'm here via heisenbridge (https://github.com/hifi/heisenbridge), seems to work nicely
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20:36:25<@JAA>My MuroBBS thread page qwarc run is done. It went 32 seconds over the estimated time window. :-) 2.08M requests, 626474 thread pages (including 6 duplicates) with 9572574 posts (including ≤150 duplicates), 29.5 GiB of WARCs.
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21:02:03<Sanqui|m>awesome!
21:02:15<Sanqui|m>what are the wayback ingestion propositions?
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21:04:09<@JAA>Soon™
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21:06:51<@JAA>Just to be clear: I grabbed only the actual thread pages. No stylesheets, smiley images, or whatever. Very minimal, but at least all text content should be there.
21:07:35<@JAA>Might do some processing to get outlinks and images from the post contents to run through #// or AB.
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21:34:37<Jake>mgrandi: https://github.blog/2019-10-14-introducing-autolink-references/
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21:39:45<@JAA>Neat, thanks!
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22:23:30<@arkiver>JAA: do you have murobbs covered?
22:23:42<@arkiver>if yes, I won't start anything with #Y
22:23:53<@arkiver>also if you have a list of outlinks later, we can push those to #//
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22:36:08<@JAA>arkiver: Yeah, should be fine I think. I might run the forum listings through AB later just to make sure navigation is somewhat kept, but the actual content is already safe.
22:36:31<TheTechRobo>JAA: What is SYS?
22:38:33<@JAA>TheTechRobo: Does a web search for 'OVH SYS' yield any results?
22:39:06<TheTechRobo>Sorry, I forgot about the Internet ^^" Is it "SoYouStart.com"?
22:39:10<@JAA>Yes
22:39:18<TheTechRobo>Thanks, sorry ^^"
22:40:16<@arkiver>JAA: perfect
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23:32:54<@JAA>Uploaded and deriving, should show up in the WBM sometime tomorrow I guess: https://archive.org/details/murobbs.muropaketti.com_20220411
23:34:40<@arkiver>:)
23:34:53<@arkiver>Maakuth: ^
23:46:43<Maakuth>Excellent, thank you JAA!

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