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00:00:04<kiska>In this case if Verivox is deleting every thing news and launching their own platform, I think we must assume everything they have is in danger
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00:25:23<@JAA>The website of i12 GmbH, the subsidiary of Verivox that actually owns onlinekosten.de, apparently vanished sometime this year.
00:25:39<@JAA>router-forum.de is also shutting down: https://www.router-forum.de/
00:25:45<@JAA>https://www.router-forum.de/forum-news/in-eigener-sache-router-forum-de-wird-eingestellt.t75087/ *
00:28:35<@JAA>Those are the only two forums owned by i12 it seems. There are a few comparison sites as well. https://web.archive.org/web/20210515202829/https://www.i12.de/online-magazine/
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00:34:44<@JAA>I can't find any link between Verivox and CHIP. I'm not sure those two are actually related.
00:40:59<@JAA>Yeah, CHIP belongs to BurdaForward GmbH, which is a subsidiary of Hubert Burda Media. Entirely unrelated to Verivox as far as I can tell.
00:41:20<@JAA>Just a coincidence that they're shutting down around the same time, I guess.
00:47:39<@JAA>The forums of Brigitte (a German women's magazine) closed on the 14th: https://www.brigitte.de/informationen-zur-schliessung-der-brigitte-community-13097262.html Still online read-only for the time being: https://bfriends.brigitte.de/foren/
00:50:47<@JAA>readmore.de is closing on the 31st: https://www.readmore.de/news/163662-tbd/
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01:32:33<thuban>foum.chip.de, router-forum.de, onlinekosten.de, readmore.de and the brigitte.de forums added to deathwatch
01:32:46<h2ibot>Switchnode edited Deathwatch (+1052, add several german-language forums discussed on…): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=48051&oldid=48043
01:33:58<thuban>the readmore.de announcement mentions that 4players.de will be closing on the same date
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01:34:44<thuban>(i see it's already in our "reanimations" section after a previous brush with death, including the remark that "the community does not expect this to go well"!)
01:34:58<@JAA>lol, that didn't last long.
01:35:39<thuban>should i move it out of that section and into deathwatch, or leave one entry in each? :thunkful:
01:36:42<thuban>er, into "dying"
01:37:06<@JAA>Yeah, that belongs into dying. Two months of extended life support isn't worthy of being called a reanimation.
01:40:21<@JAA>I've been continuously archiving the 4Players forums since October, although it looks like that broke about two days ago after what I suspect was a wave of spam or similar.
01:41:34<thuban>although, i actually can't find an announcement on either the site itself or its forum. someone with better german than mine want to check?
01:41:58<@JAA>Yeah, I couldn't either.
01:53:02<@JAA>Even the active discussion thread on the topic has no mention of it based on some brief scrolling. Not going to read the full 112 pages though...
02:00:47<thuban>updating deathwatch anyway, with a note about the odd sourcing
02:01:51<h2ibot>Switchnode edited Deathwatch (+235, add 4players (again). the community was right!): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=48052&oldid=48051
02:05:52<h2ibot>Switchnode edited Deathwatch (+3, fix some broken references): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=48053&oldid=48052
02:06:53<@JAA>Yeah, sounds good.
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03:06:44<@JAA>I'm going to close about 15 old project channels before the end of the year. These are channels for projects that ended over a year ago and where the sites are well and truly dead, and all but one didn't get a single meaningful message this year. I'll announce it in each channel, yell at me there if you disagree. :-)
03:07:24<@JAA>Closing means they'll be locked via ChanServ, and unless we reopen them within a year, they'll get dropped automatically.
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03:52:14<Ryz>I must speak again on whether there's anyone doing LG smartphone related stuff? It's gonna be gone at the end of 2021: https://www.gsmarena.com/lg_is_shutting_down_its_developer_website_last_chance_to_unlock_your_bootloader-news-52152.php - I haven't seen a response aside from JAA wanting me to add the thing to Deathwatch, which I did
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04:18:17<h2ibot>JustAnotherArchivist edited Deathwatch (+2, /* 2021 */ Fix ref): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=48054&oldid=48053
04:21:59<@JAA>Haven't seen anyone mention anything about it.
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04:26:26<@JAA>Not sure much can be done anyway apart from throwing it into AB.
04:26:38<@JAA>The SDK and emulator downloads require an account.
04:27:03<@JAA>The bootloader unlocker thing can't be archived.
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10:13:27<h2ibot>Bzc6p edited Template:Hungarian websites (+32, + [[kepkuldes.com]], × [[kepkezelo.com]]): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=48056&oldid=47244
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15:23:29<h2ibot>Arkiver uploaded File:Curiouscat icon.png: https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?title=File%3ACuriouscat%20icon.png
15:34:08<ThreeHM>Has anyone grabbed the SDK downloads on LG's developer site yet? If not, I could create an item on IA and upload them.
15:41:06<@arkiver>ThreeHM: if they have simple URLs, we should get those into the wayback machine
15:41:29<@JAA>They're behind a login wall I think.
15:41:41<@JAA>At least the ones I looked at were.
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15:46:27<ThreeHM>Yeah, they all require being logged in. The URLs also appear to be generated by JS
15:47:48<ThreeHM>Creating an account only requires a valid e-mail, I was mainly asking to avoid duplicate uploads if someone else already saved them
16:01:06<Sanqui>So I'm learning to use Puppeteer (a headless Chrome driver, like next-gen PhantomJS or Selenium). For practice I chose a web forum which does pagination using a session cookie (no URL, so utterly hopeless for ArchiveBot). I'm wondering if we have best practices for WARCs yet.
16:01:33<@JAA>warcprox or similar
16:01:58<@JAA>Don't try to produce WARCs from the dev interface stuff as it doesn't return the raw data.
16:02:39<Sanqui>Right
16:03:01<@arkiver>yeah, we had a chromebot before
16:03:12<@arkiver>those WARCs have all been taken out due to header issues
16:03:24<@arkiver>taken out of the wayback machine that is
16:03:38<@JAA>Well, the chromebot data also had even worse issues, but yeah, that was part of it.
16:04:16<Sanqui>ah yeah, I remember that. Makes sense a proxy would be more reliable. Honestly the best sounding method to do this to me would be a raw packet capture and only deriving WARCs from that.
16:05:03<@JAA>That sounds horrible, especially if TLS is involved.
16:05:39<Sanqui>Of course, all runtime keys would have to be included in the capture.
16:07:57<Sanqui>But making a capture as raw as possible sounds like a fundamentally sane method to prevent errors, or at least present an opportunity to repair them in the future.
16:09:08<Sanqui>Each layer adds complexity. Much like how it's not enough to archive a filename and HTML content, I'd go one layer above trying to parse the HTTP protocol while capturing it. Just theorycrafting here though if there are no methods to do this yet.
16:09:57<@JAA>Yeah, I've thought about this before as well, albeit not in detail.
16:11:55<Sanqui>For now I'll work on integrating puppeteer with warcprox, should be straightforward enough
16:14:03<@JAA>(Disclaimer: I never actually checked whether warcprox behaves correctly. At least it doesn't use warcio though.)
16:17:46<Sanqui>I have a few goals with this project (archiving hofyland.cz): learn Puppeteer, generate a WARC scrape to upload to IA, and make a static copy/derive that can be hosted. Testing a TLS or even TCP/IP level capture would be a nice bonus.
16:18:25<Sanqui>So far I have a browser clicking through all the links nicely :)
16:19:04<@JAA>Let's verify that warcprox produces good WARCs while we're at it. :-)
16:19:27<Sanqui>:+1:
16:19:57<@JAA>I have no particular reason to think it doesn't, but better safe than sorry.
16:20:10<Sanqui>Aye, it will be good to get multiple eyes on the results
16:20:24<Sanqui>I haven't worked with WARCs much and the spec scares me.
16:20:50<@JAA>It gets scarier the more you look at it.
16:21:27<@JAA>Should we move this to -dev?
16:23:55<@JAA>(Or well, future discussion about it)
16:27:15<Sanqui>Sounds good.
16:43:57<Hermeus>Hey, on reddit someone wrote that you guys are aware of the imminent demise of the onlinekosten.de forum and plan to archive it. Is this true? And if yes, in which form will this be accessible? Will it be integrated in the Wayback Machine?
16:45:15<@JAA>Yes and yes :-)
16:45:51<Hermeus>I tried doing it myself with simple wget, but I just couldn't get it to work very well with the session ids in urls and you should have much more expertise with this. It's just a simple forum and mostly just text. Images are hosted on external image hosters.
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16:47:37<Hermeus>@JAA is there some more info about the project or is this just done offhand?
16:49:02<@JAA>Nothing in particular, no. It's running through ArchiveBot at the moment (recursive crawl with heavy filtering), and I'm setting up a separate, more systematic effort (thread enumeration).
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16:52:13<Hermeus>Is there some progress/status dashboard available?
16:53:13<Hermeus>nvm I just found it
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