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07:42:35<s-crypt>I have a job that is kinda manual but simple. I have a list of a few links to zip files that are about 20gb each that I would like to upload to IA, but I have neither the storage space or bandwith for that. could someone help if I post the list of links?
07:44:29<s-crypt>I am having to start, then cancel, to get the download link from dropbox after guessing how many videos is around 20gb zipped. I hate dropbox
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08:00:23<s-crypt>https://transfer.notkiska.pw/guzTB/wintergatanvideos.txt Here is a link to the text files with the links
08:01:12<s-crypt>Idk how this prob 100gb is able to be stored in my 3gb dropbox account, but those are the direct download links. if anyone could help that would be great :)
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15:07:19<Sanqui>1. anybody in favor of a separate forumposts ignore set?
15:07:43<Sanqui>2. anybody in favor of supporting yaml alongside json for ignore sets so that we can use *gasp* comments to explain the patterns?
15:08:11<Sanqui>might even implement that as an archivebot coding exercise if somebody else is also like... "yeah. i'd want that."
15:28:43<masterX244>psdevwiki back up again. best to run a crawl with the correct domain now as a santiy grab for wayback
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16:14:00<flashmeow>people running multiple projects/instances in parallel: do you run warrior or individual project containers?
16:17:23<masterX244>part, part. some stuff in warriors dockered and occassionally (like on Y-A) direct dockers
16:17:35<masterX244>(one warrior usually stays pinned to reddit no matter what)
16:20:06<flashmeow>I haven't found a good way to monitor the containers as they scale. the warrior's web ui is handy, but port allocation is messy without a reverse proxy
16:24:03<Ryz>Sanqui, oh yeah, the other thing is that we would want to have ignoreset forums to be split up by what forum software it covers
16:24:50<@Kaz>flashmeow: some people have some integrated logging lark through docker, can't remember what that's called though
16:24:57<@Kaz>webui certainly would be a bit of a headache yeah
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16:34:52<@JAA>s-crypt: Please use https://transfer.archivete.am/ in the future.
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16:39:03<@JAA>Sanqui: If we switch file formats, I don't think I'd be in favour of YAML. One really annoying thing is having to escape the patterns, e.g. duplicating all backslashes. YAML has issues like that as well. I've been thinking about simply making it a plain text file. Lines starting with a hash are skipped as comments, all other lines are taken as-is as patterns.
16:40:29<@JAA>But there's one major issue here: ignore patterns are currently kept in CouchDB, which *requires* JSON. So we can't easily move away without very ugly crutches.
16:40:46<@JAA>Getting rid of CouchDB is high on my todo list though.
16:42:36<rewby>Can't you just have whatever script loads the values in do a json.dumps() on that plain text file? That way the encoding is dealt with for you
16:42:53<@JAA>'ugly crutches'
16:42:58<rewby>I see
16:43:11<@JAA>I'd rather just throw CouchDB into the abyss it deserves.
16:43:45<rewby>What's so bad about couchdb? (Genuinely curious. I've never used the tool myself.)
16:45:29<flashmeow>JAA: Aren't yaml and json equivalent / can convert between them?
16:49:37<russss>JAA: if you use a "block scalar" (kinda like a heredoc) in YAML you don't have to quote anything (and yeah, YAML can just be transparently converted to JSON). I'm not the world's biggest YAML fan but I do find it useful as a more human-friendly JSON replacement
16:49:44<russss>https://www.yaml.info/learn/quote.html#block
16:49:46<@JAA>rewby: It's not horrible. I haven't enjoyed working with it, but that's mostly due to my own expectations (e.g. annoying auth defaults for example), the unmaintained client library used by AB, and it having been removed from Debian's repos several years ago because it was very broken (incl. licence issues) and unmaintained. My main issue though is that AB uses Redis for almost everything, and there's
16:49:53<@JAA>zero reason not to also use it for the couple things that are still in CouchDB, which would obviously simplify things a fair bit. But to be fair, CouchDB was also used for more stuff back when AB was initially written.
16:50:35<@JAA>flashmeow: 'ugly crutches'
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16:54:28<@JAA>russss: I see. Yeah, I'm not a big fan of YAML either. My key complaint is the same as with PEP8: no tab indentation. It's also a very complex spec overall. If we're going by human-friendliness: TOML.
16:59:43<flashmeow>toml nested keys are an absolute pain to read
17:04:24<rewby>JAA: Understandable. If most things are redis at this point then yeah, redis for everything makes sense.
17:04:39<rewby>JAA: I see you too like tab based indentation.
17:09:52<@JAA>flashmeow: You mean the need to repeat the parent section name? Yeah, that's a bit annoying.
17:11:14<@JAA>rewby: Yes. I saw that someone made a fork of snscrape a while ago solely to replace tabs by spaces and threw up a little.
17:14:07<rewby>JAA: I don't get why people who want their 2 space indentation not just set their tab width. It's not like every editor has had that settings since the 90s
17:14:37<@JAA>Exactly. Tabs have semantic meaning, and everyone can configure them to show up exactly as they prefer.
17:14:48rewby prefers 8-wide tabs
17:15:18<@JAA>Instead, we get hardcoded spaces in files, so the editors need to guess from the file what the correct indentation is, replace that by tabs internally so it can actually be reasonably worked with, then translate everything back on writing the file to disk again.
17:15:45<@JAA>Or you go the vim route and insert a shitty comment line at the end of the file that indicates the indentation width...
17:15:59<rewby>Yeah. It's so weird. And if the argument is about aligning multi-line statements. You just align with tabs up to the level of the "primary" statement and then go with spaces from there
17:16:13<@JAA>Exactly. Tabs for indentation, spaces for alignment.
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19:23:30<thuban>men after my own heart
19:23:35<thuban>s-crypt: have you figured something out? i have middling bandwidth but tons of storage space; i can dl that stuff if it's not too time-sensitive
19:25:55<thuban>Sanqui: ping me if you do reorganize the forum ignoreset(s), i did a xenforo install in grab-site and the coverage in the default one is spotty
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20:09:40<@arkiver>i've had discussions with JAA about this before
20:09:40<@arkiver>but
20:09:49<@arkiver>rewby: JAA: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/
20:09:55<@JAA>Yes, PEP8 is wrong.
20:09:57<@arkiver>"Use 4 spaces per indentation level."
20:10:01<@arkiver>no pep8 is not wrong
20:10:24<@arkiver>PEP8 says 4 spaces, even it you dont agree with it, it's good if people follow some general style
20:10:28<@arkiver>so i follow the 4 spaces
20:10:34<@JAA>Guido said before that he wouldn't even allow tab indentation at all if he reinvented it from scratch.
20:10:36<@arkiver>and the 79 chars
20:10:37<@JAA>He's just silly.
20:10:51<@arkiver>feel free to not follow PEP8, but i think it's important
20:10:59<@arkiver>consistent style across project written by different people
20:11:08<@arkiver>makes things readable
20:11:10<@JAA>Guess what, tab indentation would be more consistent than this.
20:11:16<@arkiver>guess what
20:11:20<@arkiver>this is PEP8
20:11:26<@arkiver>released by Python as style guide
20:12:14<@arkiver>some people use 2 spaces, others 3, others 8, some people to tabs, some people have lines of 200 chars.
20:12:37<@arkiver>the style guide says 79 chars, 4 spaces, and if everyone just follows that it'll make things much more readable
20:12:52<@JAA>Except I don't like an indentation of 4 characters, so fuck me, huh?
20:12:59<@arkiver>of course everyone can have opinions, but PEP8 is here whether people like it or not, and most Python coders follow it
20:13:01<@JAA>Indentation with spaces is silly.
20:13:14<@JAA>And that part is easily the single biggest mistake in PEP8.
20:14:02<@arkiver>there's so many things on the planet that look silly (and possibly have some silly aspects)
20:14:13<@JAA>Yeah, but this one has an easy solution: just use tabs.
20:14:22<Sanqui>I personally use spaces, but I gotta say I still treat PEP8 more as a guideline than gospel lol
20:14:29<@JAA>^
20:14:44<@arkiver>the important thing here is that *most* people in the python community are actually using PEP8
20:14:52<@arkiver>and most people agree with it
20:15:04<@arkiver>it works, and sometimes it is good to have something consistent
20:15:07<@arkiver>it may not be perfect
20:15:12<Sanqui>I think what's more important is the consensus of the actual working language, which is not quite PEP8, but in the case of spaces-vs-tabs, spaces are the prevailing opinion for the language, so that's what I use.
20:15:13<@arkiver>and people always have opinions about everything
20:15:21<@JAA>The indentation is easily the most controversial part of it though.
20:15:22<@arkiver>but *some consistency* is important
20:15:53<@arkiver>i dont like it when i see 200 chars lines, and tabs where i have to adjust my editor *again* to change to that different style
20:15:58<@arkiver>that style not following PEP8
20:16:06<@arkiver>but yeah, feel free to use your own style
20:16:14<@JAA>You only have to configure your editor once for the tab width though.
20:16:15<@arkiver>just... i'd consider PEP8 the 'the standard'
20:17:03<@arkiver>i bet python itself has some silly stuff, we could write our own language exactly the way we want it
20:18:23<@JAA>I consider PEP8 a general guideline with significant flaws. :-)
20:18:41<@arkiver>probably has flaws!
20:18:52<@arkiver>good though if people are consistent in their style - makes things easier
20:19:12<@arkiver>that is
20:19:18<@arkiver>following PEP8
20:19:26<@JAA>Yeah, but the space indentation specifically makes things *harder*. That's like my entire point. :-)
20:19:37<@arkiver>no, just do 4 spaces
20:19:47<@EggplantN>tbf
20:19:50<@EggplantN>if its an ifstatement
20:19:55<@EggplantN>you dont need spaces/indents
20:19:55<Sanqui>harder for you maybe, but that's your personal opinion. the whole point of a consensus is that you respect it even if you don't agree with it
20:19:59<@EggplantN>do same line
20:20:01<@EggplantN>🧠
20:20:06<Sanqui>and the consensus is spaces for python :p
20:20:21<@arkiver>EggplantN: uh what?
20:20:37<@arkiver>Sanqui: yeah
20:20:39<@EggplantN>if variable == 1: print("hello")
20:20:42<@EggplantN>one liner
20:20:43<@EggplantN>🧠
20:20:47<@arkiver>:P
20:21:01<Sanqui>as long as you can mutate it into an expression you can even just use the ternary operator
20:21:13<Sanqui>🧠🧠🧠
20:21:33<@JAA>With assignment expressions, you can probably convert any Python code into a one-liner now.
20:21:55<@arkiver>but we dont, since we try to follow the style guides somewhat
20:22:14<@JAA>Yeah, those are the things of PEP8 that make sense.
20:22:22<@arkiver>like 4 spaces
20:22:28<@JAA>Nah
20:22:36<@arkiver>so that not everyone goes and does their own version of indentation
20:22:40<@arkiver>like Sanqui said, consensus
20:23:12<@arkiver>so many correct versions according to so many people
20:23:15<@arkiver>lets just use PEP8
20:23:36<Sanqui>I'm rebellious about many things but the particular choice of indentation of a language ain't it lol, going against the flow just makes it suck for everybody. like Go prefers tabs, I use tabs in Go.
20:24:02<@JAA>PEP8 is all about readable code, and 4 spaces isn't inherently more readable than 1 tab. If anything, the opposite is true because different people prefer different indentation levels. The part about avoiding ternary expressions etc. when it would be too complex, on the other hand, does.
20:24:24<Sanqui>Python clearly prefers spaces no matter how you look at it (PEP3, surveying the community, or doing statistical analysis on available code..)
20:24:29<@JAA>Anyway, this obviously isn't leading anywhere. I've made my point, you've made yours.
20:24:59<@JAA>Sanqui: Well duh, when the official recommendation is to use spaces, some people will simply blindly follow it. So yeah, obviously that's going to be the case.
20:25:17<Sanqui>are you saying the majority of python users are unable to form their own opinion?
20:25:39<@JAA>No, that's not what I said.
20:25:56<Sanqui>alright
20:26:51<@JAA>If you told people who haven't read PEP8 about the rules of the language and to write code in the way they see optimal/most readable, I can almost guarantee you that the proportion of tabs would be higher than it actually is.
20:29:08<Sanqui>I disagree with that, but I also ain't vested enough to disprove it lol. Let's move on
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21:36:06<lunik1>print("hello") if variable == 1 else None
21:36:41<@JAA>variable == 1 and print('hello')
21:42:22<@JAA>((lambda b: b and print or (lambda *a, **k: None))(variable == 1))('hello')
21:42:25<@JAA>:-)
21:43:12<@JAA>-> -ot
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23:19:24<@OrIdow6>This is, like, the stereotypical argument people would have on IRC
23:24:13<thuban>i think you mean it's _traditional_
23:37:13<@OrIdow6>CDX says 16976 subdomains for Wikifoundry, by the way
23:37:24<@OrIdow6>Well, has, obviously it's not authoratative
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23:47:12<@JAA>Oof
23:51:05<@JAA>There's a list of the most active wikis at http://wikifoundrycentral.com/page/WikiFoundry+Top+100+List . Looks like it was last updated in 2017.
23:53:52<@JAA>We could try contacting them for a complete list. Two addresses are given in the shutdown notice.
23:58:06<@OrIdow6>Worth a try
23:59:34<@OrIdow6>Example of a still-functioning custom domain: http://www.thetudorswiki.com

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