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08:23:25<pabs>https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-judge-rules-internet-archives-digital-book-lending-violates-copyrights-2023-03-25/
09:28:36<schwarzkatz|m>scary stuff
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11:27:18<IDK>rip
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18:55:14<Void0>Any projects going on to backup the lending library portion of IA at least?
18:57:20<@JAA>No way to do that unless IA wants it to happen since you need to lend each book individually.
18:57:52<Void0>damn that sucks
18:58:45<Void0>worried that the appeal wont go their way either. i wonder if they should just cut their losses and make a deal with the publishers
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19:16:59<pokechu22>The problem of course is books where there isn't a surviving publisher/that are otherwise orphaned :/
19:19:35<Void0>yea i agree, the laws though don't seem to consider orphaned works
19:19:51<@JAA>On the other hand, those books likely wouldn't be a problem for IA either. If nobody has a credible claim to a work, nobody will complain to IA about it either.
19:21:57<Void0>I wonder if they will have the means and funds to continue the library in some capacity if they lose the appeals. Maybe limiting the scope of their book offerings to just public domain and orphaned works would be possible
19:22:46<@JAA>The suit is only about the unlimited lending from the National Emergency Library in 2020, as I understood it.
19:22:51<Void0>kind of horse shit that copyright laws are the way they are
19:22:51<@JAA>Not about the digital lending in general.
19:23:15<Void0>the judge ruled that even the regular digital lending was illegal
19:23:48<Void0>as digitizing it was considered copyright infringement
19:23:58<Void0>*when they lent it out
19:24:09<@JAA>Hmm, some articles seem to say that and others mention the NEL explicitly.
19:24:29<@JAA>I figured the former just forgot to include that bit of information.
19:27:25<@JAA>Here's the actual ruling: https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23723923/hachette-v-internet-archive-ruling.pdf
19:27:38<Void0>thanks will skim it later
19:28:03<Void0>this article seems to do a good job of summarizing it imo, but maybe biased as its from publishers weekly lol
19:28:03<Void0>https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/libraries/article/91862-in-a-swift-decision-judge-eviscerates-internet-archive-s-scanning-and-lending-program.html
19:29:55<Void0>And Koeltl also acknowledged that the Internet Archive is of course still free to lend books in its collection that are in the public domain, and free to use works still covered by copyright in "a manner consistent with the uses deemed to be fair in Google Books and HathiTrust," such as indexing, snippet view, and full access for the print disabled. That line suggests the publishers will likely not prevail in asking for the infringing scans to be
19:29:55<Void0>destroyed, as the initial complaint had asked for, as it acknowledges there are legal uses for the IA's in-copyright scans.
19:32:40<Void0>my understanding is the publishers are treating digital books differently from physical books. its unfortunately the way the market for a lot of things is going. that we as consumers do not own anything, just purchasing a license to use it which can be revoked at any time
19:36:14<@JAA>I briefly looked over the court document, and yeah, it looks like it's about the Open Library in general, with the NEL just being the catalyst for it actually going to court.
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20:07:03<Void0>yea i skimmed it too and it seems like IA got the law wrong on this one, i don't see how they can win on appeal unfortunately
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23:11:30<pabs>hmm, I thought their emergency lending thing was still 1-to-1 but where the amount of lending was the same as the amount of books in shuttered libraries nation-wide?
23:12:37<@JAA>No, it was unlimited as far as I know.
23:13:13<pokechu22>The justification was that in practice it would be the same as the amount of shuttered libraries but I don't think that was enforced by any technical means
23:13:18<@JAA>They already had partnerships with libraries before that, where they would lend out their copy multiple times based on the total number of libraries that had the book in their collection.
23:13:49<@JAA>total number of *partner* libraries *
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