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00:27:51<Guest>10 openai's would not be worth anywhere as much as apple. they dont even make a profit 😂
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03:51:27<steering>Guest: mmh, but they're even more addictive and peer pressurey than apple, too
03:52:08<steering>oh huh I wonder what we do with most other things that are addictive and peer pressurey and bad for you(r brain)?
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03:55:36<steering>anyway yeah the lack of profit is just because they're loss leading for massive market share, that doesn't mean a whole lot, I suspect that when the inevitable price jacks come people will overwhelmingly continue paying
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04:08:36<nukke>you think the price increases will be sudden or more subtle?
04:09:03<nukke>Netflix has been slowly increasing prices and, afaik, they've lost subscribers
04:09:26<nukke>and like the AI space, the streaming media market has lots of competing services
04:09:32<steering>indeed, they were already losing subscribers
04:10:19<steering>overwhelmingly though, people have continued paying, as they raise prices, tighten limits, constantly change their library, etc.
04:11:46<steering>I would argue that AI is even more addictive than on-demand streaming media, and most of them won't keep giving "come try us" away for free I'd expect...
04:12:49<nukke>~180% increase in 12 years https://9meters.com/entertainment/streaming/netflix-pricing-history
04:13:58<steering>honestly, what hasn't increased by 150%+ in the last 12 years? >_>
04:14:09<nukke>steering: thinking this through more, I think the average person pays for more than one streaming service, whereas with AI I feel like the average user only uses 1 service
04:14:13<steering>(I'm being a little bit unserious but not a ton)
04:14:15<steering>this is rue
04:14:17<steering>+t
04:14:48<nukke>so it might be possible for them to really jack up the price in one go. ChatGPT is synonymous with "AI", whereas Gemini or Claude isn't (yet?)
04:14:55<steering>although businesses are very much an additional consideration
04:15:08<nukke>very true. that's the majority of their revenue
04:15:12<steering>CFO at work is hosting some "how2AI" seminars soon
04:15:31<steering>currently we get the pro features, whatever they are, for free since we have Google Workspace. how long will that last? ;)
04:17:28<steering>I think you're right, users will largely only use one AI service, or maybe something specialized too or something like that. But I also suspect there will be fewer AI services anyway.
04:17:46<steering>(compared to streaming services that is)
04:18:31<steering>Overall, running a streaming service seems pretty cheap compared to AI... which is a weird thing to say since running a streaming service is not particularly cheap
04:18:39<nukke>I think there are specialized AI apps already that are paid and popular
04:18:47<steering>indeed
04:18:53<nukke>what's that one that people fall in love with avatars and stuff?
04:19:12<steering>midjourney? is that paid? lol
04:19:14<nukke>I think underneath it's just a GPT wrapper or app or whatever they call ut
04:19:20<nukke>midjourney is paid yeah
04:19:28<steering>that was the kinda thing I was thinking of
04:19:35<nukke>there are also lots of video AI ones
04:20:39<nukke>and I think people might also start paying for the "Plus" tier on apps that include AI. for example, people that use e.g. Evernote or similar apps, they might want whatever AI shit they bundle in the paid Plus tier
04:21:10<steering>I think a lot of people... especially those who are growing up right now, HS or college, maybe even my daughter in 1st grade, we'll see how long the bubble lasts... are going to be basically crippled by AI
04:21:26<nukke>indeed :(
04:21:46<steering>and I have no doubt that the AI companies will likely be happy continuing to loss lead for a decade or longer
04:21:47<nukke>I try to avoid it as much as possible but running a local LLM is fun
04:22:33<steering>(how many people do you think had used Uber and Lyft, and begun using them regularly, before *they* jacked up prices?)
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04:23:39<steering>almost everyone back in austin had used them at some point or another, and I think they'd be most people's default option still...
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04:25:10<steering>you *could* of course choose to use a local taxi company, it'd probably even be cheaper, and hey guess what they never fiercely lobbied against things like background checks for drivers either!
04:25:27<steering>similarly you *could* of course choose to run some open model or whatever
04:25:47<nukke>yeah it's definitely convenience
04:25:59<steering>I even saw someone on facebook the other day who was complaining about the streaming services, asking for other options, and then... "other than sailing the seas" \o/
04:26:19<steering>well lady that's your other option, take it or leave it
04:26:40<nukke>what is "sailing the seas" for the average joe? 123movies or whatever?
04:26:53<nukke>joe or jane schmo is not gonna torrent
04:27:27<steering>*shrug*
04:27:31<nukke>have you USED those pirate streaming sites? they're barely usable *with* adblock. the average user does not have adblock
04:27:36<steering>I neither read nor inquired further lol
04:27:42<nukke>sus
04:28:00<steering>and also yes I used them extensively long ago without adblock lol
04:28:24<steering>not much room to pirate movies on a 80GB laptop drive
04:28:36<nukke>dear lord I am so sorry :(
04:28:58<steering>(* this was in days of windows 7, its not as abad as it sounds)
04:29:30<nukke>probably worse! this is pre-sandboxing browser days, pre-windows defender
04:29:42<steering>lol, well, I meant the 80GB drive wasn't as bad as it sounds
04:29:51<steering>the pirate streaming sites definitely were
04:30:01<steering>at least we had popup blockers by then
04:31:37<nukke>back when AVG and Avira and those others were considered good antivirus :(
04:33:28<nukke>wow I forgot about a bunch of those old AVs
04:33:53<nukke>nod32, avast, bitdefender
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04:49:36<steering>malwarebytes, ccleaner
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11:29:18<anonymoususer852>The whole antivirus scare campaign, a-la-Mcaffe and all were pretty big back then. So were the idea of sanitizing your Windows installation. Hiren's bootCD and all anyone?
11:30:49<anonymoususer852>"sanitizing" as in businesses and some keen computer users were using the likes of Norton Ghost, perhaps even Deep Freeze. Those are the days.
11:34:40<anonymoususer852>People still have misconceptions about the word blocking in the likes of adblock, uBO and all. It's not even truly "blocking" the element, but rather as a more generalized "display: none;" which just prevents it from being visible on the screen. The blocked element is still there in website's source code, still gets loaded, but is just invisible from the naked eye.
11:37:32<anonymoususer852>Also downloading as a term. Visiting any website requires you to download first in order to view the content, doesn't matter if it is legit content or not. It's not like loading a website is a completely separate process from downloading at all. Then again one could go on infinitely about the common things average Joe and Jane don't understand in the tech. world.
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11:52:02<masterx244|m>anonymoususer852: only if the element is there already. adblockers often say "no" to downloading of ad scripts and trackerscripts so they don#t execute at all and are thus blocked.
12:07:04<TheTechRobo>And uBlock Origin definitely has a positive impact on performance. Low end computers are downright unusable without adblockers.
12:13:04<masterx244|m>that shows pretty well how adtech is a massive waste of energy and bandwidth
12:26:16<DigitalDragons>uO on my computer has blocked like 26% of requests since install
12:34:18<masterx244|m>how? thats a unusual high percentage
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12:40:03<anonymoususer852>It doesn't completely forbade the content, like for images such as banners, blocking them on network level should make them appear as broken image icon on web browsers. For scripts, sure I can agree with that to an extent.
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12:42:55<anonymoususer852>The scope of ads aren't solely limited to just websites themselves, but to the likes of proxies in which a number of ISPs, notably in South East Asia, tend to also deploy ads via the likes of iframe injections.
12:45:08<masterx244|m>wrong. ublock nopes the request and at the same time yeets the element in the HTML
12:45:47<masterx244|m>and if its a script that creates the elements nopeing the script prevents the elements from spawning at all. Did you never notice ads appearing a few seconds after page load only?
12:46:09<anonymoususer852>It doesn't yeet it, the image is still there in the HTML. It's not like ublock completely rewrites the HTML.
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12:48:32<anonymoususer852>There's a difference between images themselves and the likes of JavaScript content. Embedded images if they were blocked in strict sense, they show as generic broken image icon, not like they're completely invisble and blends in with the rest of the page.
13:09:41<DigitalDragons>If you look in the network tab, you will see the request to fetch the image get blocked, and uBO will also hide the element on the page at the same time
13:12:20<anonymoususer852>Note the keyword there, hide.
13:12:40<DigitalDragons>If you were to unhide it, you would see the broken image icon
13:13:36<DigitalDragons>masterx244|m: not sure, maybe some overactive analytics that keeps retrying in the background and drives the numbers up?
13:14:35<anonymoususer852>You'd still see what was the placeholder for possibly an ad regardless, especially if it's an image.
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13:59:43<masterx244|m>usually there are additional rules (uBO calls them "cosmetic filters" that eradicate the stuff that can't be filtered out by request blocking
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14:22:11<TheTechRobo>Does it really matter if it's not visible anyway?
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18:29:52<@JAA>that_lurker bonk++
18:29:53<eggdrop>[karma] 'that_lurker bonk' now has 26 karma!
18:33:01<that_lurker>O.o
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18:36:33<@JAA>I think you can figure out why. :-P
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18:40:21<nukke>keep it in PMs pls
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20:25:58<steering>it wasnt even in PMs, it was in public
20:26:37<steering>69 bonk++
20:26:37<eggdrop>[karma] '69 bonk' now has 1 karma!
20:26:40<steering>:D
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21:53:48<anonymoususer852>Clownflare++
21:53:50<eggdrop>[karma] 'Clownflare' now has 0 karma!
21:54:39<anonymoususer852>Cloudflare--
21:54:39<eggdrop>[karma] 'Cloudflare' now has -16 karma!
22:01:57<TheTechRobo>!kfind flare
22:01:57<eggdrop>[karma] 4 matches for 'flare': Clownflare: '0' butflare: '0' cloudflare: '-16' Buttflare: '-206'
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22:56:09<anonymoususer852>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42577836 lol that's a new one, "crimeflare"
23:04:57<Fijxu|m>It's old
23:08:19<anonymoususer852>New as in I haven't seen it getting karma points here, compared to "clownflare", "buttflare" or "butflare" :p
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