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00:04:27<joepie91|m><nukke> Who had "Firefox dies" on their 2025 bingo card?
00:04:31<joepie91|m>I do not think that is a correct read
00:05:18<joepie91|m>a) this is the linux foundation, which is a corporate consortium that has very little to do with the rest of the open-source world, and b) this looks like preparation for the "google must divest chromium" ruling
00:05:45<joepie91|m>this is exactly what I would expect the linux foundation to do
00:06:17<nukke>Mozilla's main funding comes from. Google
00:06:27<nukke>So double whammy
00:06:41<joepie91|m>corporations have stuff running on chromium, google needs to get rid of it, therefore it will end up in the 'governance organization for megacorps who use open-source" which is... the linux foundation
00:06:59<hexa->the linux foundation is a corporate shit stain on the Linux name
00:08:59<hexa->TheTechRobo: servo.
00:09:14<hexa->aka collabora et al
00:09:32<hexa->errr igalia
00:09:36<hexa->https://blogs.igalia.com/mrego/servo-revival-2023-2024/
00:21:34<nicolas17>Ubuntu now has rsync fixes
00:21:52<nicolas17>but steering made me paranoid
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00:26:56<hexa->ubuntu is a bad copy of debian
00:26:58<hexa->change my view
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00:27:18<hexa->the debian advisory was out 6 hours ago
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00:31:46<steering>I blame the comment on gentoo's bugzilla
00:34:02<steering>I did actually go ahead and install the latest copy of rsync from git though
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00:42:14<steering>https://github.com/RsyncProject/rsync/commit/2b38542e0d3fda8081e06368196248b3b0070819#diff-b335630551682c19a781afebcf4d07bf978fb1f8ac04c6bf87428ed5106870f5R115 wat
00:43:17<steering>It was announced quite in advance though https://www.mail-archive.com/rsync-announce@lists.samba.org/msg00113.html
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00:43:31<steering>(discord!!)
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01:25:12<nukke>discord++
01:25:13<eggdrop>[karma] 'discord' now has -19 karma!
01:25:56<hexa->I think you're holding discord-- wrong
01:26:00<hexa->let me
01:26:02<hexa->discord--
01:26:02<eggdrop>[karma] 'discord' now has -20 karma!
01:27:57<katia>nukke = failtroll
01:28:53<nukke>we're making fun of you in the AT discord
01:29:18<katia>rent free
01:30:53<nukke>Euros don't even know the definition of free 🤣
01:31:36<katia>free as in healthcare
01:31:45<katia>oh…
01:32:05<katia>😞
01:32:11<steering>savage
01:35:27<nukke>Free as in freedom to choose to die
01:35:29<hexa->amateurs
01:35:40<hexa->I can make fun of katia on IRC
01:36:04<katia>Yeah ok and i can cry
01:38:48<nukke>Good
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02:01:15<nicolas17>https://twitter.com/nintendo_cs/status/1879332711451795501
02:01:17<eggdrop>nitter: https://xcancel.com/nintendo_cs/status/1879332711451795501
02:01:21<nicolas17>"We have confirmed the existence of unauthorized services that replace functions such as online play for the Wii U, which ended service on April 9, 2024. Please refrain from using such services as they may pose unexpected security risks."
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02:52:44<nulldata>https://steamcommunity.com/games/1692240/announcements/detail/532087801681805319
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02:57:40<nicolas17>>once she recovered
02:57:48<nicolas17>is the other developer the one they went violent on
03:00:28<@OrIdow6>Never heard of this game but that sucks
03:00:31<@OrIdow6>Good luck to her
03:01:39<nicolas17>"She was recovering from a botched surgery" oh
03:03:25<@OrIdow6>nicolas17: I guess you'd be familiar with the "no using the thing you bought, that's a security risk!" line
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04:34:28steering wonders what security risk there would be
04:34:42<steering>oh no it might brick my wii u or something just like nintendo already did :P
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04:38:19<nicolas17>JAA pabs: today's FOSS trainwreck https://github.com/fluentassertions/fluentassertions/pull/2943
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04:41:50<nicolas17>relicensed under commercial terms starting in 8.0
04:41:54<nicolas17>"Not only did they not ask contributors, contributors were putting code into the RC FOR THE NEW VERSION until the license got changed suddenly"
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04:51:44<@JAA>nicolas17: Yeah, saw it mentioned somewhere earlier, beautiful trainwreck indeed.
04:51:49<steering>$130/yr/dev lolwut
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11:19:03<nulldata>lol at the dev's latest response to another project removing FA
11:19:20<nulldata>"We will not do that. This was already a hard decision. I've personally invested almost 15 years in this project, so doing this was a long and careful process (albeit not careful enough apparently)."
11:21:40<nulldata>Such long and careful process that they didn't announce anything beforehand or contact other contributors
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12:53:26<szczot3k>JAA another Impuls train has problems with starting up, lmao
12:53:37<szczot3k>https://kolejowyportal.pl/opolski-impuls-ma-problem-z-uruchomieniem/ article in Polish
12:53:44<szczot3k>so maybe more train hacking soon
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13:15:53<FireFly>:v
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13:52:00<masterx244|m>and thats after that topic got the second talk at the CCC congress..... seems like they want a third one to spawn
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15:17:31<katia>cat communication congress congress
15:25:38<DigitalDragons>it's the CCCC
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16:51:11<FireFly>congress is known to contain catgirls
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18:51:12<@JAA>lol :-)
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19:50:12<@JAA>https://trufflesecurity.com/blog/millions-at-risk-due-to-google-s-oauth-flaw
20:15:05<szczot3k>https://hackerone.com/reports/2633988
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20:30:08<szczot3k>stephan48++
20:30:09<eggdrop>[karma] 'stephan48' now has 1 karma!
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20:37:37<steering>>Here’s the problem: Google’s OAuth login doesn’t protect against someone purchasing a failed startup’s domain and using it to re-create email accounts for former employees. And while you can’t access old email data, you can use those accounts to log into all the different SaaS products that the organization used.
20:37:49<steering>or you could just use that SaaS product's password reset flow to do the same thing
20:38:58<szczot3k>It's not really a Google OAuth problem, lol
20:39:08<szczot3k>That's any mail and identity provider's problem
20:39:10<steering>indeed
20:39:38<steering>(also I'd be surprised if google's oauth doesn't give them some opaque ID in addition to the email address, which the SaaS providers should be using, but that guess could very well be wrong)
20:40:15<steering>also... why is your failed startup continuing to pay for all these SaaS things anyway :P
20:40:39<steering>if you're gonna keep paying for that stuff then uhh... maybe also pay for the domain
20:41:07<steering>oh, yeah, it explicitly shows the claims that google sends, and they definitely do include an opaque ID, so this is 1000% a problem with the SaaS providers and not google
20:42:01<szczot3k>if your domain is taken over, you've got enough problems already
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20:45:14<szczot3k>even if this is fixed, we then have a problem of "I bought a domain, messaged the HR system as their former admin 'We want an export', and now I got the export"
20:45:42<szczot3k>Or maybe "I messaged a (government agency), and they've belived me"
20:45:44<steering>mmhmm
20:47:21<steering>the article suggests not using passwords at all and only using SSO - which works great until you realize that companies don't want you to be locked out of your accounts, and if you have their domain and pretend to be them you're gonna get in, whether you have to get the provider to manually let you in or not...
20:48:05<szczot3k>"Hey slack, I'm the tenant admin, something broke with SSO, can you reset my password please?"
20:56:28<steering>exactly
20:56:57<steering> Good news: Your FICO® Score has increased by 1 points!
20:56:58<steering>Jan 02, 2025
20:57:05<steering>*nothing else in between*
20:57:06<steering> Your FICO® Score has decreased by 11 points.
20:57:07<steering>Jan 08, 2025
20:57:32<steering>lol ok thanks
21:00:21<BouncerServ>your FIDO score has decreased by 1 points!
21:00:24<BouncerServ>FIDO1
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21:07:18<@JAA>steering: The opaque ID exists but is broken, as mentioned in the article.
21:07:52<@JAA>But yeah, not really a Google/OAuth problem.
21:09:21<@JAA>The password reset method is 'obvious', this slightly less so, I'd say.
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21:36:16<steering>JAA: I'm curious if it's *actually* broken or just "it changes and we don't know why"
21:36:41<steering>perhaps the account was deleted and recreated for some reason
21:37:31<szczot3k>Working with google workspace API proved me that there's just so many things not documented, or working in a weird way
21:38:07<steering>very true, but I feel like users' ID randomly changing would be more widely noticed.
21:38:31<steering>(given how widely it's used)
21:39:07<szczot3k>fair
21:40:09<szczot3k>but, even if it's a case that the accounts are recreated then... it's a good question, if it should let you as the same user
21:41:22<szczot3k>for example - the notifications are still sent to this email, so a person who got a 'second hand mail' can receive those, but not modify them, because they can't login
21:41:44<steering>On the one hand, defense in depth. On the other hand, if your domain is taken over you're basically pwnt anyway.
21:41:46<steering>:P
21:41:52<that_lurker>Ok. Maybe I will take a look that nixos-mailserver thingy again https://mastodon.neat.computer/@jonah/113705526672291257
21:42:07<szczot3k>And what if they can't login? The slack example - they probably need to login. Create a second account with the same email? Not let them do anything, and wait for admin?
21:42:32<szczot3k>steering I'm even thinking of the actual domain owner just recreating some account
21:42:44<steering>but yeah at that point it's a conscious decision by the SaaS provider
21:43:21<szczot3k>Maybe the person left the company for some time, and they've got recreated. Or maybe they've got a bug in some other system, and need their account recreated, or maybe it's an entirely different person, and the organization doesn't have an email reuse policy
21:43:54<steering>I mean
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21:44:18<steering>you can take that to the extreme, too: what if the Workspace org was deleted and a new one made?
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21:44:49<szczot3k>steering sure, it's all hard questions, with no good answer
21:44:50<steering>my employer originally had two separate Workspace orgs, we've since moved all the users into one of them
21:45:03<BouncerServ>why not get a 3rd
21:45:07<steering>I would argue that the correct decision here is: be safe
21:45:37<szczot3k>Recreating the workspace/ms365 org should probably void all oauth accounts
21:45:38<steering>The secure choice is to base it on an identifier for *that* particular user account
21:46:06<szczot3k>The best choice would be to actually use a user provisioning mechanism, not just an identity provider mechanism
21:46:09<steering>(i.e. the `sub`, if it's not broken)
21:46:28<steering>and then if someone gets locked out you can handle that with existing processes
21:46:50<szczot3k>SCIM might help with some of the issues here
21:46:59<steering>and yes, very true re: provisioning
21:47:10<@JAA>'Hmm, this wasn't working, so I recreated the Workspace org, but now I can't see all my message history‽‽‽'
21:47:25<steering>JAA: I'm sure someone has said it at least once :P
21:47:53<steering>two things about this annoy me:
21:48:00<@JAA>Yeah, probably another reason to just use the domain rather than some unique ID.
21:48:08<steering>1) products gating SSO behind and a tripling or quadrupling of the price
21:48:11<@JAA>Because else it's additional workload for your SaaS provider.
21:48:20<szczot3k>JAA the same with an account. I've actually got my admin account recreated at work, and would be furious if my jira account was deleted with it, and I expect it to work, even with a different account, with the same email address
21:48:30<steering>s/and//
21:48:56<steering>2) products gating some sort of group/role/permission sync behind a tripling or quadrupling of the price
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21:50:56<steering>(I'm looking at you, Gitlab LDAP-group-sync)
21:53:11<steering>also TIL SCIM??? surprised I haven't heard of this before
21:53:28<szczot3k>because it's pretty much used nowhere
21:53:59<szczot3k>Facebook Workplace (inb4: TIL Facebook Workplace) had an implementation, but now they're dead
21:54:12<steering>no, I'd heard of that one
21:54:20<szczot3k>I'm surprised
21:54:44<szczot3k>I was running one tenant, it was fun, setting the SCIM I've found at least couple bugs
21:55:51<steering>I feel like it's simpler to just do it in the applications anyway
21:56:01<szczot3k>wdym?
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21:57:50<steering>delete users by looking them up somewhere when they login; create users by periodically polling some database (LDAP or otherwise)
21:58:14<steering>(or just create on login with info obtained during the authentication)
21:58:49<szczot3k>SCIM is good for what Facebook Workplace actually was - a facebook clone. You don't want to have a person's department wrong, until they login, maybe two weeks later
21:59:09<steering>mmh, that's fair I suppose
21:59:23<szczot3k>You change it in your IdP, boom, 5 minutes later it's up to date
21:59:50<szczot3k>Your users are probablly not looking at portal.azure.com to see the user directory, they'd use FB Workplace for that
22:00:07<steering>I'd still rather just poll, although at least SCIM could get rid of whatever credentials the application is using to poll, and insulate the (full) user list from the app
22:00:53<szczot3k>SCIM in the cloud is what LDAP Polling is on prem
22:01:15<steering>there's plenty of cloud stuff using LDAP too weirdly enough :P
22:01:42<szczot3k>But having the main IdP be MS365, you don't get an LDAP to connect to
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