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04:13:07<immibis>fun fact about that license: it automatically terminates. posts on 2018-05-01 and before use an older version of the license that doesn't have a grace period for un-termination - termination is permanent upon first violation
04:13:20<immibis>for posts after that, they have 30 days to fix it or it's permanently terminated
04:14:15<nicolas17>so stackexchange doesn't have a license to redistribute the content if they violate the license?
04:14:48<immibis>not under creative commons at least
04:15:02<immibis>they'll claim they have one for a different reason
04:15:04<@JAA>Huh
04:15:19<@JAA>Do you have a link regarding that 2018 change?
04:15:39<nicolas17>I remember fun stuff with ffmpeg's LGPL2 too
04:15:42<immibis>JAA: https://stackoverflow.com/help/licensing - there were also meta posts about it at the time, but they also just say it on their website
04:15:59<immibis>btw i've sent them like 4 different GDPR requests to delete my data in the last couple months and they've all been completely ignored, so does anyone know how to sue a US company for GDPR violation or if that's even possible?
04:16:02<@JAA>Hmm
04:16:23<nicolas17>where ffmpeg would contact vendors of proprietary software infringing the LGPL
04:16:43<@JAA>The CC 4.0 change was in 2019 though, at least according to this: https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/333089/stack-exchange-and-stack-overflow-have-moved-to-cc-by-sa-4-0
04:16:59<@JAA>TIL they've done the same thing with 2.5/3.0 before.
04:17:57<nicolas17>and demand things like "credit ffmpeg on your website", the vendor would say "I don't think that's required by the LGPL?", and ffmpeg would say "yeah but your license was terminated when you infringed it, and we can choose not to reinstate it until you do these things too"
04:18:04<immibis>if there was any point where a post submitted under 3.0 was labeled as 4.0, they permanently lost the rights to that post :D
04:18:34<immibis>nicolas17: i bet that got a lot of pushback from the kinds of people who license their software MIT?
04:20:44<@JAA>Oh, was this the thing where they (SE) changed the CC link in their terms of service and then took over a year to acknowledge that?
04:26:26<@JAA>Right, yeah
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05:17:46<nulldata>Some GTA design documents leaked: https://archive.org/details/jane-doe-gift
05:17:56<nulldata>https://gtaforums.com/topic/300544-collectors-general-chat/page/123/#findComment-1072480714
05:21:44<nicolas17>that seems like a bad item ID?
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06:16:59<DigitalDragons>"[...] and you grant Stack Overflow the perpetual and irrevocable right and license to access, use, process, copy, distribute, export, display and to commercially exploit such Subscriber Content"
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06:28:31<immibis>[...] as reasonably necessary to, for example (without limitation): [some things]
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06:57:40<kiska>Oh my grafana machine is screaming at me :D
06:57:41<kiska>https://server8.kiska.pw/uploads/e9d22c5e9d8daa29/image.png
07:36:14<DigitalDragons>"without limitation", also displaying posts sounds like it would fall under "Provide, maintain, and update the public Network"
07:50:46<immibis>could, doesn't sound strong enough to override gdpr right to erasure though
07:51:29<immibis>their best defense to that is not being a european company
07:53:39<DigitalDragons>I meant more for the losing CC rights to the posts that was mentioned
07:54:38<DigitalDragons>They probably are violating gdpr, but also enforcing that will be a pain in the ass
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10:51:31<immibis>If they lost the CC license but retained the right to display it, they don't have the right to give other people a CC license either
11:42:02<joepie91><DigitalDragons> "[...] and you grant Stack Overflow the perpetual and irrevocable right and license to access, use, process, copy, distribute, export, display and to commercially exploit such Subscriber Content"
11:42:08<joepie91>"sublicense" is curiously missing there
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15:28:12<immibis>even if it was there i don't think they'd have the right to label their license as your license. But they're billionaire investors so everything's legal if they do it
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18:57:06<masterx244|m>checked in at 38C3 already... assembly initialized
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19:05:08<DigitalDragons>joepie91: you grant a CC license too in a previous part of the paragraph
19:10:58<DigitalDragons>and under the CC license terms, I don't think it matters if SO lost their rights specifically? "Every recipient of the Licensed Material automatically receives an offer from the Licensor to exercise the Licensed Rights under the terms and conditions of this Public License."
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19:16:38<@rewby>masterx244|m: : 👀
19:16:44<@rewby>I may come visit after dinner
19:16:49<@rewby>Do we have a sign?
19:19:03<joepie91>DigitalDragons: it is just surprising to me that they have not separately obtained a right to sublicense, as that is very common for open license hosters to do, so that they themselves can declare exemption from the public license
19:19:14<joepie91>commercial open license hosters*
19:19:38<joepie91>it would allow them to sell the dataset to an LLM company, for instance, without the attribution requirement
19:20:19<joepie91>that kind of exclusive "slightly more advantageous" licensing is often where the money is for such a company
19:24:46<DigitalDragons>yeah, it is, this is also just an awfully worded paragraph in general
19:25:23<joepie91>I did notice that :)
19:25:33<nicolas17>they're probably selling the dataset to an LLM company without the attribution requirement *anyway*
19:26:15<nicolas17>it's not like LLM companies ever cared about licenses of the data they train on
19:26:22<joepie91>probably, but the interesting part is that they do not seem to have the legal right to do so :)
19:26:39<nicolas17>neither does OpenAI scraping my blog
19:26:39<joepie91>and that one is a lot easier to prove than LLM laundering
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19:29:34<DigitalDragons>i wonder if they're selling anything to anyone when the dumps are free to download
19:30:50<nicolas17>wtf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayes'_theorem#Interpretations
19:32:47<nicolas17>P(impostor|sus)
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21:01:50<@rewby>masterx244|m: You still at the assembly?
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22:11:57<katia>masterx244|m, what assembly?
22:13:51@JAA resets the 'days since a submarine cable in the Baltic Sea was damaged' counter.
22:17:26<@JAA>DigitalDragons: That's probably why the dumps aren't public anymore.
22:21:57<@rewby>masterx244|m, katia: Either of you around?
22:23:31<fionera>im at congress too :3
22:23:35<fionera>If anyone wanna say hi ^^^
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22:51:59<FireFly>I found a CCH as well
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23:05:39<nicolas17>T_T
23:47:55<katia>fionera, i just left but i'll be there tomorrow prob. around milliways again

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