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00:00:03<@JAA>Yeah, LTO7 would be good. That's a pretty decent jump in capacity and speed.
00:00:15<@JAA>And it's already nearing a decade old. :-|
00:00:48<@JAA>Well, ok, almost two years to go, but still.
00:01:06<fireonlive>yeah even 7 with 6TB would be much better
00:01:40<fireonlive>is there an analogy for /r/patientgamers but for us lol
00:03:29<nicolas17>LTO6 tapes are 2.5TB? how much do they cost?
00:04:19<@JAA>Yeah, LTO6 is 2.5 TB at 160 MB/s, LTO7 is 6 TB at 300 MB/s.
00:04:25ThreeHM (ThreeHeadedMonkey) joins
00:08:43<@JAA>Unused LTO6 cartridges seem to be available for €10-15 per piece quite regularly. Not if you buy through retailers though, there it's about double that.
00:09:28<@JAA>Much of it is in the US though, so not practical for me. :-/
00:14:54<@JAA>LTO7, someone sold 50 pieces for £921 on eBay recently: https://www.ebay.com/itm/335174298188
00:15:02<@JAA>That's £3.07/TB.
00:16:26<@JAA>But that's certainly not the norm.
00:17:28<fireonlive>oh wow
00:17:35<@JAA>Looks like they're available for roughly €30 per piece fairly often.
00:17:51<fireonlive>hmm not bad
00:18:57<@JAA>Mhm, but the difference to HDDs isn't as big as it was when I last looked at it a few years ago.
00:19:54<fireonlive>ah :x
00:20:49<@JAA>HDDs are around €14/TB in Europe, for reference.
00:21:14<@JAA>Or well, that's where they start.
00:21:28<@JAA>But they're large drives with 5-year warranty, so that's nice.
00:22:00<@JAA>Seagate Exos, WD Ultrastar, Toshiba Enterprise Capacity
00:26:24<fireonlive>ahh
00:26:41<fireonlive>no SMR for you
00:28:41<@JAA>Yeah, none of that either. :-)
00:30:08<fireonlive>:)
00:30:47<fireonlive>https://bugs.ntp.org/ is up (200,Success) < speaking of drives
00:30:53<fireonlive>"You Can Help Us Reach Our 2023 SSD Upgrade Goal!"
00:31:05<fireonlive>"$530 needed for the fourth of 24 SSD sets:"
00:31:39<fireonlive>https://www.nwtime.org/news/2024-ssd-appeal/
00:31:40<fireonlive>hmm
00:33:17<fireonlive>can i may a gay porn hdd appeal? donate your monies today
00:34:12<fireonlive>make*
00:35:29<fireonlive>TIL https://attackronyms.redditinc.com/
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01:15:35<nicolas17>I wouldn't mind SMR if it was actually a noticeable price difference
01:16:40<SootBector>it's not a concern if you're using a HDD like a tape, right?
01:17:24<nicolas17>exactly
01:19:04<nicolas17>it's more flexible than tape actually, for writing it's like multiple smaller tapes (you don't have to rewrite the entire disk from the beginning, there's multiple "zones")
01:19:13<nicolas17>not to mention the random-access for reading
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01:35:01<@JAA>The other thing that annoys me is that it's really unclear how you can 'reset' an SMR drive so that it considers everything or parts of the drive not in need of the read-write-write cycle anymore.
01:36:43<@JAA>Oh, and of course the thing where they didn't even specify whether a drive had SMR or not.
01:36:47<nicolas17>TRIM?
01:37:03<nicolas17>oh not specifying if a drive is SMR should count as illegal false advertising
01:37:20<@JAA>Maybe. Some people also claim you can just zero out the relevant parts of the drive. I never found official confirmation anywhere.
01:37:55<nicolas17>there's SATA extensions for SMR that proper drives would support (not consumer drives that aren't even disclosing the SMRness)
01:38:08<@JAA>Well, WD did get sued over it and settled for pennies.
01:38:21<nicolas17>that's how settlements always go
01:38:24<@JAA>Yeah, host-managed SMR.
01:38:39<fireonlive>settlments :(
01:38:51<nicolas17>"company must pay $2M, of which $1M will be distributed across the 1 million affected users ($1 each) and the other $1M will go to lawyers"
01:38:56<@JAA>Those are probably available in 30 TB very soon. Not for us plebs though.
01:39:39<@JAA>28 TB started shipping a couple months ago I believe. Along with 24 TB non-SMR ones.
01:41:35<fireonlive>why not make the drives 10 inches and have 257TB of space
01:41:38fireonlive 🤔
01:42:40<nicolas17>fireonlive: because then you get higher latency from the disk head having to move a longer distance
01:42:42<nicolas17>however
01:42:50<nicolas17>Google has proposed *taller* disks with more platters
01:43:15<@JAA>What if I don't care (much) about latency?
01:43:22<nicolas17>especially for datacenter use, where they don't give a shit about being physically compatible with existing desktop-computer cases
01:44:02<nicolas17>JAA: did HAMR ever become a thing?
01:44:04<fireonlive>hmmm
01:44:11<fireonlive>taller would be interesting
01:44:37<@JAA>Not sure if 5.25" slots are still available in modern consumer cases, but HDDs in that form factor existed in the past.
01:45:09<nicolas17>https://research.google/pubs/disks-for-data-centers/
01:45:18<@JAA>nicolas17: Yes, for a few years now I believe.
01:45:41<@JAA>Not sure they're in consumer drives though.
01:45:51<nicolas17>oh there are functional HAMR disks, but are they actually better at anything yet? :P
01:46:52<@JAA>I believe they're a key behind the roadmap of '50 TB by 2025' or whatever it was.
01:47:27<@JAA>Ah, 2026
01:48:01<@JAA>The dual actuator disks from Seagate also exist.
01:49:48<nicolas17>one interesting thing Google "asks for" in that paper is that they'll gladly take disks with higher error rates if that gave them better cost or density or latency
01:50:15<nicolas17>because they have to replicate across multiple disks *anyway*
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02:14:48<nukke>I thought RAID was not a backup :(
02:15:43<nukke>oh wow ted t'so is an author on that paper :O
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03:06:49<@JAA>> PixieFail: Nine vulnerabilities in Tianocore's EDK II IPv6 network stack.
03:06:52<@JAA>https://blog.quarkslab.com/pixiefail-nine-vulnerabilities-in-tianocores-edk-ii-ipv6-network-stack.html
03:06:55<@JAA>oh no
03:07:05<@JAA>That's the reference UEFI implementation.
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03:10:13<pabs>superkuh: re mastodon without JS https://github.com/jwilk/zygolophodon
03:12:36<superkuh>Thanks. I have tried that one but having to leave my browser to view a website is very sub-optimal.
03:14:23<@JAA>>Microsoft asked if it was possible to postpose the Dec. 1, 2023 disclosure date as they would need more time to deploy a complete fix on their cloud infrastructure [...] Microsoft asked to hold off disclosure until May 2024.
03:14:27<@JAA>lol, classic Microsoft
03:16:15<fireonlive>May 2024 x_x
03:16:37<nicolas17>wat
03:16:39<@JAA>> Quarkslab responded to AMI's message communicating Tianocore's assessment of CVE-2023-45236 and CVE-2023-45237 as weaknesses rather than vulnerabilities. Quarkslab expressed disagreement with such an assessment stating that CVE-2023-45236 (TCP ISNs with the same algorithm as EDK2) had been exploited in the wild in 1995
03:16:44<@JAA>...
03:17:16<nicolas17>that's UEFI, it affects everyone, if Microsoft can't fix their cloud infrastructure before May 2024 what hope is there for everybody else
03:20:47<@JAA>> 2023-12-06 Microsoft updated the status and indicated internal discussions regarding fix commitment timelines were still ongoing.
03:20:59<@JAA>The deadline was the 12th at that point. They were still discussing about the timeline. lol
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03:31:10<fireonlive>why aren't i drunk
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05:07:29<DogsRNice>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTqRx-F7ZqA
05:07:33<DogsRNice>in light of some recent news
05:08:13<DogsRNice>also its always fun to find recentish videos in that have a 4:3 aspect ratio
05:08:40<DogsRNice>though maybe its because the original source was
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05:12:34<fireonlive>peeeeeerrrr
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16:02:19<kiska>fireonlive: My solar panel got shipped! https://server8.kiska.pw/uploads/acb675dbe2532b0e/image.png
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16:24:54<fireonlive>kiska: sweet :D
16:44:24<myself4>. o O ( solar-powered DPoS client = eco-warrior?) )
16:54:30<kiska>@ifre
16:54:32<kiska>Oh :D
16:54:41<kiska>fireonlive: I found this diagram :D https://server8.kiska.pw/uploads/c2c5dc2a8dc24338/image.png
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17:07:02<fireonlive>kiska: ooh :3
17:07:15<fireonlive>16MB of ram right lol
17:07:37<fireonlive>thst poor chromium
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17:30:41<kiska>fireonlive: no not Chromium :D
17:30:46<kiska>But Chrome :D
17:30:51<fireonlive>oh!
17:30:59<fireonlive>stock chrome xP
17:31:03<@JAA>On a Pentium 2, too. Sounds painful.
17:31:05<kiska>Nope :D
17:31:50<kiska>My employer's Engineering dept ripped out thousands of lines of SSE3/4/AVX/AVX2/FMA/AVX512 intrinsics and replaced them with MMX! :D
17:32:05<@JAA>lol
17:32:22<fireonlive>x_x
17:32:26<kiska>Cause Chrome is SSE3 minimum as of like 3 years ago
17:32:41<@JAA>Have they considered maybe not using Chrome? :-)
17:32:45<kiska>Nope
17:32:48<fireonlive>could they engineer a new sorter application xP
17:32:49<kiska>Well actually yes :D
17:32:49<@JAA>Of course not.
17:33:28<kiska>fireonlive And lose support of Siemens?
17:33:47<fireonlive>rip
17:34:01<fireonlive>i do like siemens in my life
17:34:05<fireonlive>:3
17:34:29<@JAA>*bonk*
17:34:46<fireonlive>😵‍💫
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17:35:53<kiska>Well I think its Siemens/Dematic
17:36:50<kiska>Hrm... I think Engineering would have to complile it anyway https://server8.kiska.pw/uploads/557a2956dc754c3c/image.png
17:38:51<nicolas17>wait is that diagram real
17:39:26<kiska>nicolas17: yes in a very high over view I made
17:39:33<nicolas17>x_x
17:39:36<@JAA>Why do they need a browser there in the first place?
17:39:56<@JAA>Parcel sorting doesn't strike me as requiring that. :-)
17:40:20<kiska>Because the Siemens/Dematic sorting app is only local and was made in 1996 when real time tracking and internet wasn't really a thing in the mainstream
17:41:22<@JAA>Sure, but why a browser rather than a script to relay that information?
17:41:44kiska shrug
17:41:48<@JAA>Or is the sorting app a crappy ancient web thing?
17:42:00<kiska>Its Windoes 95
17:42:08<kiska>s/Windoes/Windows
17:42:15<nicolas17>no, windoes was correct
17:43:10<kiska>:D
17:43:12<@JAA>It almost seems like someone just wanted to get assigned the task of keeping Chrome running on Win 95 and an ancient CPU. :-)
17:43:39<kiska>And this machine processes 15k parcels per hour and CPU usage is 95%
17:43:49<nicolas17>I tried to get Firefox to run on AWS Lambda and ultimately failed
17:44:00<kiska>The 2 guys that are maintaining it are like retirement age
17:44:04<@JAA>Sounds very future-proof.
17:44:07<@JAA>Oh, even better.
17:44:42<@JAA>What will they do when the CPU dies? Source a replacement from a computer museum?
17:44:51<kiska>Siemens gives us a new machine
17:45:00<@JAA>Ah
17:45:05<kiska>That is what that support contract is for
17:45:05<nicolas17>x_x
17:46:06<@JAA>When was the hardware first put into service? I'd guess 20 years ago or so?
17:46:09<kiska>There's a few bits of missing hardware in my diagram, but they are mostly switches and routers
17:46:16<kiska>This hardware was installed in 1997
17:46:27<@JAA>Oh wow, so it was really state-of-the art tech then.
17:46:40<@JAA>I figured they'd go for tried and tested stuff.
17:46:55<@JAA>Pentium 2 only came out in 1997 I believe.
17:46:56<kiska>And the very smart men at Siemens decided to design the sorter in a way where all the PLC stuff and what not are integrated into the building
17:47:08<kiska>So there is no way to replace without knocking down the whole site
17:47:17<@JAA>Beautiful.
17:47:26<kiska>At best they could upgrade the PLCs
17:47:39<nicolas17>but surely they can use newer software on a newer OS to manage the same PLC? :/
17:47:45<kiska>Nope!
17:48:03<kiska>Siemens/Dematic software was only validated to run on this hardware configuration
17:48:23<kiska>We pay them 7 figures to have a support contract
17:49:00<nicolas17>you pay them 7 figures to figure out how to get that updated to a newer OS and validated :P
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17:50:37<fireonlive>no that’s strictly for cocaine and hookers for the executives
17:50:52<fireonlive>once they have you they couldn’t care less
17:52:03<@JAA>Hmm, this doesn't look like an LTO drive: https://www.ebay.com/itm/305358736113
17:54:14<nulldata>Tapes are inserted in the back of the unit.
17:54:43<nicolas17>what the fuck
17:55:26<@JAA>lol
17:55:33<kiska>fireonlive yeah pretty much
17:55:51<kiska>It's why we are moving away from Siemens
17:56:07<@JAA>Seller is called 'Rhino Technology Group', and apparently they use pictures of rhinos for most of their products if they don't have anything else.
17:56:11<kiska>Of course being integrated into the facility is proving challenging
17:56:40<nicolas17>get a hacker to reverse engineer the communication between the win95 software and the PLC >:)
17:57:17<kiska>Yeah problem still exists where of hardware breaks Siemens can say no replacement for you
17:57:39<kiska>We know how it communicates we know how it works
17:58:54<kiska>But no one but Siemens makes the hardware and its specialised. We have 2 of each on hand, so when something gets replaced it's special ordered
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18:07:07<fireonlive>ahh right need to get them to give you the goods
18:08:26<kiska>Yeah and that is why we don't try to upgrade the sorting software ourselves cause Siemens can just demand more money for the same support contract
18:10:01<kiska>Right now that support contract stipulates 99.9% SLA, have parts on hand to repair whatever fault, 8 technicians on site 4 of them on am shift and 4 of them on pm
18:11:00<kiska>So if that pentium 2 machine suddenly stops booting, and basic troubleshooting steps can't resolve, then Siemens just replaces the machine from spare
18:11:47<fireonlive>ahh
18:12:08<fireonlive>yeah and anything they could point a finger at wouldn’t be good
18:12:59<kiska>So with 190 people we can process 15k parcels per hour
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18:33:22<TheTechRobo>at first I forgot the context about the diagram and thought the 16MB of RAM was a typo
19:02:49<kiska>TheTechRobo: No not a typo :D
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19:21:49<fireonlive>https://www.twingalaxies.com/The-Original-TG-Historical-Database "This section of the Twin Galaxies website hosts a historical archive of the original score database, copied verbatim from the system obtained during Twin Galaxies' acquisition in 2014. It serves as an unmodified, legacy snapshot preserving performances and achievements predating the
19:21:49<fireonlive>current TG ownership and modern adjudication protocols. As a matter of archival integrity and providing continuous access to records under previous administrative standards, this database remains static and sealed. No new submissions or alterations can be made, only original scores and titles retained as they existed upon ingestion in 2014. It
19:21:49<fireonlive>stands as our commitment to custodianship of gaming's antiquity."
19:21:55<fireonlive>nice splitting there lol
19:22:14<fireonlive>part of the billy mitchell lawsuit settlement i guess
19:23:13<fireonlive>https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2024/01/twin-galaxies-billy-mitchell-settle-donkey-kong-score-case-before-trial/
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19:58:10<fireonlive>-+rss- Doom Released Under GPLv2: https://github.com/id-Software/DOOM/commit/a77dfb96cb91780ca334d0d4cfd86957558007e0 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39032363
19:58:15<fireonlive>DOOM is now GPLv2 :)
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20:09:05<nukke>is the game any good?
20:09:08<nukke>first time hearing about it
20:10:14<joepie91|m>I think you just made a lot of people feel very old
20:10:25<joepie91|m>:p
20:14:58<fireonlive>:P
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20:24:08<Barto>i remember when they release rtcw code, under gpl3
20:24:22<Barto>this was annoying since quake3, a really close codebase, was gpl2
20:24:35<Barto>and so all the improvements done for over a decade couldnt be brought to rtcw
20:25:29<Barto>maybe it was the other way around, bringing the improvements of rtcw to quake3
20:26:13<Terbium>in a couple more years, DOOM 2016 will be what the majority of younger folk will think as DOOM
20:27:00<audrooku|m>I don't agree
20:27:45<fireonlive>i want commander keen :3
20:28:47<ehmry>it has happend, I have a friend that plays doom on their playstation but didn't know about the original
20:29:15<ehmry>the are in their late twenties or maybe early thirties
20:30:28<fireonlive>https://dl.fireon.live/irc/3da9b1793a76d70a/ohno.gif
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20:32:21<nukke>I wonder if there are kids that think the Xbox One was the first xbox
20:33:44<fireonlive>😳
20:35:15<fireonlive>Gooshka: btw now that you have a nickserv account you can hide your IP if you want by typing: /msg hostserv take hackint/user/$account
20:35:18<fireonlive>(don't change $account)
20:39:40<Gooshka>nukke: And you have to watch 5554 films before watching Interstella 5555.
20:41:06<Gooshka>And 2048 films before watching Blade Runner 2049 where Gosling performs like he is literally me.
20:41:18<Gooshka>fireonlive: Okay.
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20:45:48<Gooshka>Thank you.
20:48:15<ehmry>there are people that don't know about the first two mad movies or that the first death race 2000 was a satire
20:49:19decky_e joins
20:49:48<fireonlive>:)
20:50:00<ehmry>i wish I didn't know about the third mad max movie
21:01:01<nukke>https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/the-closure-of-beyond3d.63478/
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21:01:45<nukke>when I first watched the mad max movies I thought they were australian documentaries
21:02:02<nukke>I didn't know actual australia was worse than the movies
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