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| 05:32:19 | <fireonlive> | +rss- Irish privacy group files complaint against YouTube adblock detection system: https://twitter.com/alexanderhanff/status/1714944718205755483 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37952279 |
| 05:32:19 | <eggdrop> | nitter: https://nitter.net/alexanderhanff/status/1714944718205755483 |
| 05:32:21 | <fireonlive> | hmmmmm |
| 05:36:29 | <pabs> | https://people.inf.ethz.ch/omutlu/pub/RowPress_isca23.pdf https://arstechnica.com/security/2023/10/theres-a-new-way-to-flip-bits-in-dram-and-it-works-against-the-latest-defenses/ |
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| 17:33:41 | <@JAA> | Whew: https://notes.valdikss.org.ru/jabber.ru-mitm/ |
| 17:34:06 | <@JAA> | > TL;DR: we have discovered XMPP (Jabber) instant messaging protocol encrypted TLS connection wiretapping (Man-in-the-Middle attack) of jabber.ru (aka xmpp.ru) service’s servers on Hetzner and Linode hosting providers in Germany. |
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| 17:39:58 | <@JAA> | And the only reason it was noticed is because the MITM cert expired. |
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| 18:03:26 | <@arkiver> | well that is not good |
| 18:04:20 | <@arkiver> | can a provider in germany simply be forced to cooperate with this without anything public being released? |
| 18:05:03 | <@arkiver> | for Archive Team i should note this likely does not impact our archiving using hetzner. |
| 18:05:25 | <@JAA> | Concealed court orders are a thing in almost any jurisdiction. |
| 18:05:44 | <@JAA> | And yeah, probably doesn't, although it's not impossible either obviously. |
| 18:06:19 | <@arkiver> | this kind of stuff brings one back to reality |
| 18:06:22 | <@arkiver> | (or at least me) |
| 18:07:07 | <@arkiver> | or well |
| 18:07:16 | <@arkiver> | reminds is a better word than "back to" |
| 18:07:39 | <@JAA> | TLS cert recording when? ;-) |
| 18:09:44 | <@arkiver> | yeah it's in the pipeline! :) |
| 18:09:56 | <@arkiver> | have some plans around that, and will get to it |
| 18:11:44 | <@arkiver> | actually those plans were for dns |
| 18:11:48 | <@arkiver> | but we'll get tls in too |
| 18:12:35 | <@JAA> | :-) |
| 18:12:37 | <@arkiver> | will* |
| 18:12:51 | <@arkiver> | DNS and TLS/SSL are the last big pieces basically |
| 18:13:11 | <@arkiver> | perhaps DNS over HTTPS as well, but that is not too difficult to start supporting. |
| 18:19:01 | <imer> | so, the mitm people were able to issue a cert since they intercepted the traffic, so could pretend to be the host to lets encrypt? that's kinda gross |
| 18:19:13 | <imer> | suspected of course |
| 18:21:31 | <@JAA> | Yeah true, actually, they could only do that in the other direction (affecting our archival) for things hosted at Hetzner, essentially. |
| 18:22:02 | <@JAA> | But yeah, expected attack vector and gross. |
| 18:22:30 | <@JAA> | I find it interesting that apparently XMPP has a feature that would prevent it from working. |
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| 18:46:08 | <@JAA> | > Amazon's bestselling "bitter lemon" energy drink was bottled delivery driver piss |
| 18:46:12 | <@JAA> | :-) |
| 18:46:12 | <@JAA> | https://pluralistic.net/2023/10/20/release-energy/ |
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| 19:01:24 | <fireonlive> | can |
| 19:01:26 | <fireonlive> | can i |
| 19:01:30 | <fireonlive> | can i choose which driver's |
| 19:01:39 | <fireonlive> | 🤐 |
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| 19:07:14 | <icedice> | <arkiver> well that is not good |
| 19:07:17 | <icedice> | What happened? |
| 19:09:00 | <@JAA> | https://notes.valdikss.org.ru/jabber.ru-mitm/ |
| 19:12:10 | <icedice> | <arkiver> can a provider in germany simply be forced to cooperate with this without anything public being released? |
| 19:12:37 | <icedice> | Yes, German court orders are sealed by default and can only be challenged after the data has been handed over to glowies: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/10/europe-wont-save-you-why-e-mail-is-probably-safer-in-the-us/ |
| 19:12:50 | <icedice> | The US even gives you more legal protection than Germany |
| 19:14:05 | <icedice> | Also, Hetzner loves responding to obviously bogus abuse reports, especially from the Russian government: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hetzner#Incidents |
| 19:15:14 | <icedice> | Blocked two news sites on the request of the Russian government and war.ukraine.ua (Ukraine's official site) |
| 19:15:37 | <icedice> | They reversed the decision on Ukraine's website after they were called out about it |
| 19:15:50 | <icedice> | They also took down an anti-spam site after a spammer reported it |
| 19:16:10 | <icedice> | And there was also this: https://old.reddit.com/r/hetzner/comments/13j381l/harassment_by_hetzner_abuse_team_possibly_ip/?sort=top |
| 19:16:57 | <icedice> | ^ A district heating company got fucked over by Hetzner after Hetzner gave them a dirty IP |
| 19:17:24 | <icedice> | As for Germany, they love a good data center raid: https://vc.gg/blog/announcing-the-iron-dong-hidden-service-backup-system.html |
| 19:18:18 | <icedice> | "In December 2015 and January 2016, cock.li was subject to two raids by German police by the hands of the US government, that clearly demonstrated an attempt to disrupt the website. The first raid took the first hard drive, and was a gross overreach of power by the hands of Uncle Sam. However, the site was able to continue running thanks to a RAID 1 system which utilized two hard drives both containing equal data. Since the order wasn't to |
| 19:18:18 | <icedice> | disrupt the site but to seize the data, this sufficiently satisfied the order and the site was able to remain online. However just three weeks later, the other hard drive was taken. The authorities that ordered the raid, including stupid ****** German prosecutor Jürgen Pfeiffer, already had a copy of the site's data, meaning the second raid was a clear attempt to disrupt the site, presumably with the intent to knock it offline or scare me |
| 19:18:19 | <icedice> | out of operating the site." |
| 19:19:16 | <icedice> | Tutanota has also been forced to silently hand over user data |
| 19:20:28 | <@arkiver> | "after data has been handed over" |
| 19:20:55 | <@arkiver> | so, if they ask you to keep handing over data "forever", then the process of handing over data never finishes and you can never challenge it? |
| 19:22:25 | <icedice> | No idea |
| 19:22:40 | <icedice> | If you scroll down to about half of the ArsTechnica article they have a link to the law |
| 19:28:04 | <icedice> | At least in the Netherlands, 99% of wiretaps are because of blackhat stuff like malware, phishing, and DDoS according to my contact in the Dutch hosting industry |
| 19:28:49 | <icedice> | And given the Russian cybercrime world's affinity for Jabber and the fact that it's a Russian XMPP server, I'd bet good money on it being related to malware |
| 19:28:59 | <icedice> | Gut feeling says ransomware |
| 19:30:05 | <icedice> | <JAA> Concealed court orders are a thing in almost any jurisdiction. |
| 19:30:19 | <icedice> | Yeah, but there are lots of other countries that aren't as cucked as Germany |
| 19:30:24 | <fireonlive> | hmm |
| 19:30:36 | <fireonlive> | for those two XMPP servers i guess no one was watching the CT logs for them? |
| 19:30:47 | <fireonlive> | oh wait, if they were compelled |
| 19:30:49 | <icedice> | This would probably not have happened in Iceland or Switzerland |
| 19:31:27 | <icedice> | They tend to be pretty level headed and would probably not wiretap an entire chat server for a few bad apples |
| 19:31:31 | <fireonlive> | re hetzner abuse team: someone said not to run tailscale there :/ |
| 19:31:39 | <icedice> | At least not Iceland |
| 19:31:49 | <fireonlive> | since tailscale probes some things to detect nat and hetzner doesn't like that |
| 19:32:09 | <@JAA> | fireonlive: They mention at the very end that monitoring CT logs would've helped. |
| 19:32:14 | <icedice> | Reasonable data request for individuals will get approved though, of course |
| 19:32:28 | <fireonlive> | JAA: ah ok |
| 19:32:37 | <anarcat> | yeah |
| 19:32:44 | <fireonlive> | JAA: sorry about that |
| 19:32:51 | <anarcat> | except that's Hard |
| 19:33:30 | <fireonlive> | not finding google results for tailscale hetzner... maybe i'm safe then |
| 19:33:52 | <anarcat> | my research is here https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/tpa/team/-/issues/33602 |
| 19:34:05 | <icedice> | And it also depends on the hosting providers |
| 19:34:10 | <anarcat> | er, rather https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/tpa/team/-/issues/40677 |
| 19:34:53 | <anarcat> | just keeping up with the log is blockchain-y |
| 19:35:00 | <icedice> | Some hosting providers like Bahnhof in Sweden, FlokiNET (registered in Iceland/Seychelles, run out of Romania), and Freedom Internet in the Netherlands would fight it |
| 19:36:30 | <fireonlive> | does anyone remember tailscale + hosting provider complaining about someone running tailscale? |
| 19:36:34 | <fireonlive> | or was that a fever dream |
| 19:37:33 | <icedice> | And I wouldn't be surprised if OrangeWebsite in Iceland, Data Center Light in Switzerland, Terrahost in Norway, and 1984 Hosting in Iceland would refuse unreasonable data requests |
| 19:38:16 | <icedice> | They haven't had anything like that happen yet though, at least not publicly |
| 19:38:21 | <fireonlive> | ah! |
| 19:38:30 | <fireonlive> | that's been bugging me for like a month anarcat haha |
| 19:38:39 | <fireonlive> | thanks for your work on tor :) |
| 19:38:46 | <fireonlive> | i thought i saw your nick before |
| 19:38:53 | <@JAA> | anarcat is everywhere. :-) |
| 19:39:07 | <fireonlive> | ^_^ |
| 19:39:26 | <fireonlive> | 'very familiar but I can't quite place...' |
| 19:39:44 | <icedice> | I guess we made it onto a watchlist now lol |
| 19:39:50 | <@JAA> | The other day, I was searching through some issues on GitHub. Guess who filed it? :-) |
| 19:40:24 | <@JAA> | icedice: As if we weren't on one already. |
| 19:40:25 | <fireonlive> | :) |
| 19:40:34 | <icedice> | True |
| 19:40:39 | <fireonlive> | "cool kids" |
| 19:40:43 | <icedice> | All the cool kids are on one |
| 19:40:51 | <icedice> | I got ninja'd |
| 19:41:09 | <fireonlive> | :3 |
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| 19:42:04 | <icedice> | The only ones not already on one only use the Internet to post photos of their food on Instagram and browser memes from 2012 on Facebook |
| 19:42:13 | <icedice> | * browse |
| 19:43:53 | <fireonlive> | i found it! no help to google |
| 19:43:56 | <fireonlive> | s/to/from/ |
| 19:43:57 | <fireonlive> | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37519011 |
| 19:44:16 | <fireonlive> | "tailscale runs a continuous netcheck to an unroutable IP (203.0.113.1:12345:UDP) [1] for whatever reason. This triggered Hetzner's ghetto-ass DDOS protection, thinking my server was compromised or I was netscanning the world. They sent me an email saying my server was compromised and I had 24hrs to remedy it." |
| 19:44:37 | <fireonlive> | looks like since i saw that someone followed up with "got a lot of boxes running tailscale at Hetzner never had this issue" "Maybe they've added a fix to their detection system since? I quite literally have a netscan abuse report from them filled with the above UDP IP and port." |
| 19:44:42 | <fireonlive> | so maybe all gucci now |
| 19:46:42 | <icedice> | Standard Hetzner |
| 19:46:46 | <icedice> | Like this case: https://old.reddit.com/r/hetzner/comments/13j381l/harassment_by_hetzner_abuse_team_possibly_ip/?sort=top |
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| 19:54:52 | <fireonlive> | ahh I remember that post |
| 19:55:19 | <fireonlive> | didn't see the update though |
| 19:56:33 | <fireonlive> | that was a weird one. |
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| 20:00:30 | <icedice> | Germans being German |
| 20:00:45 | <icedice> | Germany is for buying cars, not hosting |
| 20:01:14 | <icedice> | Too uptight with cucked rules and regulation |
| 20:02:18 | <icedice> | And also the country driving for and against the EU becoming a union of surveillance states |
| 20:02:31 | <icedice> | The for side is winning though |
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| 21:38:52 | <nulldata> | The Scooby-Doo and Krypto Too movie that WB originally canned for tax purposes after it was completed finally got a release last month. https://www.amazon.com/Scooby-Doo-Krypto-Too-Frank-Welker/dp/B0CC7FY5M8 |
| 21:40:25 | <fireonlive> | oh wow, i thought the leaked copy would be the only one |
| 21:40:40 | <fireonlive> | ...now i wonder if there's any differences between leak + final |
| 21:44:59 | <nulldata> | Runtime at least looks to be the same |
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| 21:49:18 | <nulldata> | Interesting speculation I spotted - it was released due to the strikes causing content release gaps |
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| 22:03:26 | <nulldata> | According to Tim Sheridan, a writer for WB, it was never cancelled. https://twitter.com/iamtimsheridan/status/1684312975128006657 |
| 22:03:26 | <eggdrop> | nitter: https://nitter.net/iamtimsheridan/status/1684312975128006657 |
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| 22:11:21 | <fireonlive> | weird |
| 22:11:25 | <nulldata> | Though he also claims he wrote the movie - but the only credited writer I see is T.K. O'Brian? |
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| 23:32:09 | <project10> | Faze Clan Acquired for $17 Million, One Year After Its $725 Million SPAC 👀 |
| 23:37:40 | <nulldata> | They paid $17 million too much imo |
| 23:38:08 | <icedice> | lmao |
| 23:38:21 | <icedice> | This made my day |
| 23:40:37 | <icedice> | Who the fuck would pay $725 million for FaZe Clan |
| 23:40:59 | <icedice> | Good that investors get a reality check before they ruin more companies |
| 23:41:07 | <icedice> | Though, let's be honest, they still will |
| 23:58:05 | <pabs> | https://www.devever.net/~hl/xmpp-incident |
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