HomeSearchPrevious dayNext day

00:00:18c0mmandhat85 is now known as c0mmandhat
00:02:11vegbrasil quits [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
00:02:35Iki quits [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:03:08Iki joins
00:04:29vegbrasil joins
00:09:20vegbrasil quits [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
00:18:17pabs quits [Client Quit]
00:21:06vegbrasil joins
00:25:49vegbrasil quits [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
00:26:22c0mmandhat quits [Remote host closed the connection]
00:28:14pabs (pabs) joins
00:30:42jasonswohl quits [Remote host closed the connection]
00:30:57BlueMaxima_ joins
00:31:05Iki1 joins
00:34:31BlueMaxima quits [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
00:35:29Iki quits [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
00:35:29NoxiousPluK quits [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
00:38:20jasonswohl joins
00:39:23pabs quits [Client Quit]
00:42:48pabs (pabs) joins
00:42:51pabs quits [Remote host closed the connection]
00:51:33pabs (pabs) joins
01:09:01za3k quits [Quit: Leaving]
01:13:42vegbrasil joins
02:13:18<jasonswohl>@cdub are you in here?
02:13:44<cdub>jasonswohl hey, eyah
02:13:49<cdub>yeah
02:15:03<jasonswohl>sooooo im curious how a VM could have had that effect on network, and what exactly happened?
02:15:17<jasonswohl>also guessing you still cant get your warrior to run?
02:19:40<cdub>truenas, trying to spin up a debian vm. go through the setup on the truenas side, point it towards the debian iso, everything goes dark. I texted my daughter, she wasn't home so i asked her to let me know if the power went out or just the internet (we're both on fios, ten minute drive).
02:22:17<cdub>daughter gets home and says the wifi (so internet) is out. I go over there and sure enough. start messing with the cheap verizon router, its unusable. tell the ex she has to go get a new one, it crapped out. she does the next day, we get it configured, as soon as she plugs in my switch to everything, the router dies. unlug it, router comes back, plug it back in router dies.
02:23:52<jasonswohl>whoa, thats wild cdub
02:24:02<cdub>so something is bringing the router down and it only happened trying to provision a vm for this project. I haven't had time to go over and troubleshoot onsite.
02:25:43<jasonswohl>i havent used truenas, i think ever and if i did it was still what nas4free is nowadays if i remember so VMs werent really a thing back then but, from my gleanings of other topics on the tubez of the web my vaguely educated guess is something stupid with bridged/nat network adapter that is somehow creating a network loop
02:26:12<cdub>Lol. its just annoying. get really into something, have some resources, and then it falls apart. story of my life i guess
02:27:14<cdub>jasonswohl you're probably right. the server has four network interfaces, i probably selected the wrong one.
02:29:22<jasonswohl>my 2 big was really excited to do a project things that horrifically crashed and burned............... 1: trying to troubleshoot i have no idea what, was given some advice by someone to remove/re-add a vmdk to my esxi host, clicked on delete from disk........... Then crashplan (RIP/good riddance) was like o, sorry because your online backup is >3TB
02:29:22<jasonswohl>we cant put it on a disk to ship to door, so hadda download my ~6TB over WAN, took ~3 months (but at least i had backups)
02:29:36<jasonswohl>cdub would be curious to know what happend w/ all that
02:30:17<cdub>jasonswohl crashplan, and you got your data back?!?
02:31:16<cdub>jasonswohl I'll let you know. everyone is leaving town this weekend so i can go over there and have some quiet time to figure it out
02:32:21<jasonswohl>other proj that i spent.......... 40+hours of my life on, had a dell T410, figured i could get a supermicro 8x2.5" in 2x5.25" bays for 8x 15k drives and just add another perc card and off to the races with the new fangled tiered storage instead of the 6x 2tb drives i was stuck with at the time......... For some stupid (dell being an asshole im
02:32:21<jasonswohl>pretty sure) something about licensing, once booted into esxi it would only be able to access one or the other PERC cards :( i tried so many things to try to get it to work, to no avail, hadda send back the enclosure, the drives was a giant PIA
02:34:45<jasonswohl>and, yeah cdub i got it back and don't know for sure, but fairly confident that after that there was a decent bit of it that was corrupt and i had to re-acquire, luckily it was my "linux iso" virtual disk, so nothing important but, still a giant PIA. Since then i used my funily enough original build of freenas box to install win server and do
02:34:46<jasonswohl>windows software raid 5 that me and a couple friends shared as a backup target for veeam from our esxi boxes, but neither of the friends use it anymore, so 5x6tb (raw) drives are all mine
02:35:31<jasonswohl>"prod" is 9x 4tb HDD in raid 6 and 5x 500gb SSD in raid 5
02:36:36<jasonswohl>cdub cool when you get the whole house to yourself w/o worrying about "OMFG i cant load facebook wtf did you do"
02:40:40<cdub>jasonswohl I bought the aforementioned nas for my to back up the server at my kids house and run plex locally. then i found costco had an m1 mac mini for a great price. i thought this is perfect (im a disgruntled apple fanboy). already had the nas, get the mac mini, set it up. Mount the nas, speeds are trash over gigabit. come to find out apple has fucked their implementation of smb for years. end up buying a das for the mac mini. i am the
02:40:40<cdub> epitome of their user base...
02:41:13<nicolas17>das?
02:41:27<cdub>direct attached storage
02:41:30<jasonswohl>nicolas17 direc
02:41:32<jasonswohl>what he said
02:41:47<jasonswohl>an external hard drive in this case
02:42:22<jasonswohl>but their are some sick thunderbolt enclosures/USB that house 2/4/8 drives
02:42:25<cdub>its actually a hardware raid enclosure over usb-C
02:42:31<jasonswohl>lol ^^^
02:42:42<jasonswohl>thats awesome though (less so the SMB part)
02:42:47<cdub>5x14TB drives
02:43:17<cdub>my nas is 5x8TB drives
02:43:26<jasonswohl>but, couldnt you have the NAS host plex and have the mini access plex via app? or was intention to set up nas as a local backup target for their house as well?
02:44:07<nicolas17>screw macos, put linux on the mac
02:44:30Dango360_ (Dango360) joins
02:44:32<jasonswohl>nicolas17 :) unless its an M1/2 ? i dont think you can do that anymore
02:44:52<fireonlive>https://asahilinux.org/
02:45:07<nicolas17>Apple lets you boot alternative operating systems on M1/M2 Macs since day 1, they added a whole lot of stuff to the bootloader for the express purpose of allowing that
02:45:16<fireonlive>(but no thank you i like macos)
02:45:18<nicolas17>they just give you 0 info on how the hardware works
02:45:42<cdub>jasonswohl I wanted the mac mini to host plex since it should be able to. the nas is a celeron. the mac mini should be able to kill it
02:46:09<nicolas17>so crazy devs are reverse-engineering the hardware and porting Linux to it, initial release was march 2022
02:46:15<jasonswohl>nicolas17 did not know the bootloader part! and, didnt directly know the HW part but......... if i had even 1/2 thought about it would have lol
02:46:46<nicolas17>they made incredibly fast progress on the GPU too
02:47:17_Dango360 (Dango360) joins
02:47:23<jasonswohl>really cool the hacking community trying to stick it to apple as hard as they do though, and fireonlive i've always understood the appeal, but ill just never give APPL any of my $ ever
02:47:41<jasonswohl>the internal GPU right nicolas17 ?
02:47:55Dango360 quits [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
02:48:09<nicolas17>yes, there's fundamental limitations to the PCIe controller that make external GPUs pretty much impossible
02:48:20<nicolas17>rumor says M3 might change that
02:48:55<jasonswohl>nicolas17 i'm not at all surprised but. I'd wager there is going to be some other limitation that at least to the best of APPLs ability blocks that
02:49:11<nicolas17>I mean, Apple just launched the Mac Pro with M2
02:49:41<jasonswohl>i ~ heard some stuff about it, saw that there were PCIe slots, but that you couldnt use a GPU?
02:49:48<nicolas17>first time they have a M1/M2 device with PCIe *slots* (rather than just Thunderbolt)
02:50:11<cdub>jasonswohl that's totally fair. but when OS X was released i was working as a Solaris 2.x eventually a 10 admin and my god, did it help things. Finally a laptop that just worked and I could get on machine with. it changed my life
02:50:31<nicolas17>but yeah GPUs don't work, for the same reason you can't use a thunderbolt eGPU on an M1 MacBook
02:51:02Dango360_ quits [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
02:52:03<cdub>maybe that comment was meant for nicolas17 :)
02:53:16<jasonswohl>i'll never forget cdub nicolas17 watching the steve jobs "biopic" where he was with the great and powerful woz and jobs was like, i wan't closed hardware I dont want people to be able to meddle with things. I want to guarantee that things work as advertised and nothing else or something along those lines. And i think a lot of people in our
02:53:17<jasonswohl>"community" are outraged at the idea, BUT man, controlling the HW makes the SW development, long term support, and performance assurances IMO so much easier
02:53:58<nicolas17>I heard someone at a WWDC event showed Scott Forstall, in person, an iPhone running Android
02:53:59<jasonswohl>so TLDR i see the merits of what apple does, i just dont agree with the way they go about doing it, and fucking consumers #loisrossmanshill :)
02:54:30<jasonswohl>nicolas17 OMFG! thats sick, ill bet they never get an invite again tho if thats true
02:55:37<nicolas17>I'm definitely in the "meddle with things" and "don't let Apple keep secrets" camp :P
02:56:01<nicolas17>not to mention preservation... https://archive.org/details/apple-ipsws
02:56:05<jasonswohl>i would expect nothing less from anyone on any of the channels on this site
02:56:17<cdub>jasonswohl you're absolutely correct. Apple is a HW company. they make the software to sell the hardware. same as Sun used to be. Apple just does it so friggin good.
02:56:41<jasonswohl>thats a cool link nicolas17
02:57:20<nicolas17>after last week's keynote they released iOS 17 and macOS 14 developer betas, iOS is not a different file for each device model but it's *close*
02:57:27<nicolas17>they add up to 220GB
02:57:35<jasonswohl>and cdub i might argue that they actually do a better job of SW > HW BUT because they control the HW, at this point the silicon level, its A LOT easier +MAN their marketing dept kills it
02:58:06<cdub>its nuts, really
02:58:32<jasonswohl>nicolas17 thats actually a smidge less than i thought it was, but given the relatively limited HW in the grand scheme of things..... that does sound like a bit much
02:59:30<cdub>so, story time. i'm 45. back in atlanta from 1978 -1986 my parents best friend in the neighborhood worked at appl
02:59:46<cdub>MIT grad this guy
03:00:02<jasonswohl>*listening ^
03:00:21<cdub>quit cause he couldn't handle jobs berating him at every turn
03:00:37<nicolas17>jasonswohl: https://paste.debian.net/plain/1283039
03:02:01<jasonswohl>nicolas17 yeah thats nuts
03:02:05<cdub>my parents weren't techies at all. when i went to get my first job this guy was on my resume. he called my parents and was like does he know what hes getting into? i was like thats all i need to know I want this job
03:03:02<cdub>my future employer called him. left that out
03:03:11<cdub>It was UUNet
03:03:47<cdub>good times
03:03:48Bleo joins
03:04:47<nicolas17>there's no way I could sign an Apple NDA lol
03:05:17<jasonswohl>cdub so your parents friend the MIT grad was on your resume called your parents, they asked a silly question and ?
03:05:37<jasonswohl>i did google UUnet though, that seems like my a dream job for me
03:06:21<cdub>jasonswohl well, he knew my dad. guy couldn't set the time on a vcr. so he wanted to make sure I knew what i was doing...
03:06:37<cdub>UUNet was awesome
03:06:54<jasonswohl>oooooook, then you were "in" as it were, cause he was already @ uunet presumedly ?
03:07:37<cdub>No, he just had the pedigree to say "yeah, this kids good"
03:07:47<cdub>i found UUNet cold
03:08:03<cdub>I went to a job fair and met the recruiter
03:08:15<jasonswohl>ooooooooo back in the "good ol days" when a resume ACTUALLY meant something, because 9/10 people didnt fluff theirs
03:08:34<jasonswohl>but that is really cool! ^ cdub
03:08:39<nicolas17>one time I mentioned on Twitter that I had briefly looked into the iPhone-AppleWatch communication protocol, and an Apple employee DM'd me "You might find this job posting interesting: jobs.apple.com/..."
03:08:47<cdub>jasonswohl exactly. 2001
03:09:11<cdub>no 2000
03:09:14<jasonswohl>and your response was i'd imagine, fuck NDA ?
03:10:12<nicolas17>my response was "I don't think I'm remotely qualified for that"
03:10:18<nicolas17>but yeah my mental response was also "fuck NDA, you can't pay me enough to *stop* talking publicly about said network protocol"
03:10:23<cdub>NDAs in the wild don't mean anything
03:10:44vegbrasil quits [Remote host closed the connection]
03:10:47<cdub>they don't ever hold up
03:11:43<jasonswohl>yeah....... in a VERY limited regard i've been under an NDA (at an MSP, basically dont give away all the secret sauce our automation guys work on prices, etc, non compete) and, they sure dont seem to though, i give you silicon valley :)
03:11:45<cdub>unless you steal stuff developed on company time and they use the nda to get you
03:12:01<jasonswohl>what a perfect fucking example ^!
03:12:07<nicolas17>plus the job description literally said
03:12:09<nicolas17>"The ideal candidate will be able to work in a fast paced environment, operate gracefully under stress, handle multiple assignments in parallel, and be self driven to be effective in an environment with little overhead."
03:13:12<jasonswohl>so through old colleagues friends that were former APPL employees they were like yeah, in some ways it was GREAT, comp car, ALL the benifits, stock options, the werks!
03:13:26<cdub>I mean there's professional responsibility right? I personally wouldn't cross one unless there was grievous harm.
03:13:40<nicolas17>cdub: I know several people who seem to have disappeared from the Internet when they got into Apple
03:13:46<jasonswohl>BUT, if you werent at the office at least ~60+ hours a week, you were out
03:14:18<jasonswohl>cdub agreed ^
03:14:20<nicolas17>cdub: https://twitter.com/QuinnyPig/status/1250550950890102784
03:14:32<jasonswohl>nicolas17 thats kind of crazy
03:14:38<jasonswohl>and on a vaguely related note
03:15:16<cdub>nicolas17 um, wow
03:16:18vegbrasil joins
03:16:50<jasonswohl>after struggling for ~1 year to get back into a sysadmin (window/linux/unix) of any kind, and being passed for helpdesk positions, i just interviewed for a position as a machinist at electric boat which im super stoked about cause machining is cool and stuff, and im fascinated, but because it's electric boat, nuclear subs. I cant talk about what
03:16:50<jasonswohl>i'm doing, take pics to share w/ my kids, friends, anyone which sucks but *shrug*
03:17:20<nicolas17>cdub: a recent one: https://9to5mac.com/2023/05/10/apple-leaker-sting-operation-source-fired/
03:17:45<jasonswohl>nicolas17 i 2nd cdub wow
03:19:27<jasonswohl>nicolas17 havent read the whole thing as of yet, but i think i get the jist and holy fuckin shit.............. you'd think they were trying to stop Pablo Escobar or some shit
03:19:36<nukke>cdub: I'm kinda curious, how is that Mac DAS working out? USB storage in general is kinda flaky in terms of reliable connection, but I wonder how thunderbolt performs
03:19:38<nicolas17>so yeah who thinks I can keep working on this in public as an Apple employee? :P https://gitlab.com/nicolas17/apns-dissector
03:20:44vegbrasil quits [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
03:21:05<cdub>nukke it's great so far. upwards of 130/MBs speed from the local machine
03:21:15<nicolas17>I think it would be a bad idea for Apple to give me any access to internal docs ;)
03:22:06<cdub>I get more like 30 MB/s over smb to the nas and most times it won't read it at all if I'm using the finder
03:22:07<nukke>cdub: that's not bad. And the M1 mini has a 10G port too right?
03:22:29<nicolas17>jasonswohl: tl;dr on that article, different employees were told a different date of when Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro for iPad would be released, when the incorrect dates leaked on rumor sites they knew who had leaked it
03:22:44<jasonswohl>nukke from watching LTT vids, i dont think so :( unless you potentially pay for the opt
03:23:21<cdub>nukke it actually has two usb C ports. one i know for sure is 40gbps. the other may only be 10
03:23:37<jasonswohl>nicolas17 SO they WERE trying to almost effectively catch "pablo" with misinformation thats diabolical !
03:23:59<cdub>nukke unless you meant ethernet? just gig
03:24:09<nukke>Apple tax (: also iirc from the reviews, the 256GB SSD option is terrible. Something like a quarter of the performance of the 512GB and above options
03:24:24<nukke>cdub: yeah, I meant the Ethernet port
03:24:47<cdub>nukke ok, sorry, just gig
03:24:56<nicolas17>I think since April 2021 you can pay extra for 10gig on Mac Mini
03:24:57<jasonswohl>nukke again from LTT vids. i seem to recall similar, and not just this gen, but for awhile they've done similar
03:25:52<jasonswohl>nicolas17 just looked @ your github Pretty sure you'd sans a credible nuclear threat be allowed access to internal apple docs :)
03:26:09<nukke>It makes you wonder, what's the point of the internal, irreplaceable SSD has bad performance and SMB implementation is busted
03:26:34<nukke>I've never used AFS so I wonder if that performs decently between apple devices
03:26:40<cdub>nukke - the ipnone 16!
03:26:44<jasonswohl>nukke isn't it obvious?! so you buy an apple server!
03:26:49<jasonswohl>o wait............ :) lol
03:27:19<cdub>oops
03:27:20<nukke>:'(
03:27:28<jasonswohl>ok, super appl N00B question, can you do network file sharing between macs ?!
03:27:32<cdub>nukke the iphone 16
03:27:40<nicolas17>jasonswohl: yes, but I think they literally use SMB now
03:28:03<nukke>jasonswohl: NFS should work I believe? They have AFS, which is Apple's version of NFS
03:28:06<cdub>well, it goes deeper than that
03:28:20<jasonswohl>nicolas17 and even still they neutered it?! thats great. Use the cloud, or fuck yourself. Sounds about right
03:28:28<jasonswohl>nukke right o, fair enough
03:28:29<cdub>nukke exactly
03:28:32<nukke>err, APFS
03:28:46<nicolas17>APFS is the local filesystem
03:28:59<nicolas17>it's like ext4, not like nfs :P
03:29:23<nicolas17>"The Apple Filing Protocol (AFP), formerly AppleTalk Filing Protocol, is a proprietary network protocol, and part of the Apple File Service (AFS), that offers file services for macOS, classic Mac OS, and Apple IIs. In OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion and earlier, AFP was the primary protocol for file services. Starting with OS X 10.9 Mavericks, Server Message Block (SMB) was made the primary file sharing protocol, with the ability to run an AFP server
03:29:23<cdub>NFS is still supported defacto
03:29:24<nicolas17>removed later in macOS 11 Big Sur."
03:29:28<jasonswohl>nicolas17 was 1/2 gonna say.....
03:29:52<jasonswohl>nicolas17 can you still actually use NFS in AppleOS?
03:30:00<jasonswohl>or macos or w/e tf its called?
03:30:01<cdub>otherwise they wouldn't maintain there UNIX credential
03:30:09<nicolas17>yes, NFS definitely works, but I don't know if they have nice GUI to set it up
03:30:20<cdub>they do
03:30:38<cdub>its the same as any other protocol
03:30:47<nukke>wait, I thought Apple used HFS(?) For local storage.
03:30:59<cdub>They used to
03:31:05<fireonlive>they have something new!
03:31:06<nicolas17>HFS->APFS transition was in 2017
03:31:22<cdub>they have rolled out a new filesystem
03:31:35<nukke>oh wow! I did not know. I am far behind
03:31:41<jasonswohl>ok, i know "some" things about unix/linux but wtf is HFS?
03:31:54<cdub>they're dumb and should have adopted zfs
03:31:56<nukke>High Fructose Syrup
03:32:06<nukke>made from Apple juice
03:32:10<jasonswohl>nukke #angryupvote :)
03:32:14<cdub>nukke best ever
03:32:22<nicolas17>HFS+ has been Apple's filesystem since 1998 (pre OS X)
03:33:11<jasonswohl>nicolas17 ok, sooooo that begs the question, what did they "steal" that HFS is actually based on? guessing EXT?
03:33:14<cdub>probably the greatest thing to come out of Sun Microsystems was zfs
03:33:37<nicolas17>and the initial HFS is from the first Mac with a hard disk
03:33:52<jasonswohl>cdub one of my rare regrets of my homelab is that i was stubborn in using HW raid instead of adopting ZFS
03:34:35<jasonswohl>and, that dell openmanage is such a PIA
03:35:15<nicolas17>"HFS Plus was not designed for Unix-like systems, so features such as file system permissions and hard links had to be retrofitted when Apple moved to Mac OS X"
03:39:16<jasonswohl>nicolas17 so, it seems that they cherry picked from the common (unix) filesystems of the day and tailored it to their needs, and as much as they needed to as to avoid licensing?
03:41:25<cdub>ZFS is a game changer. I implemented the minute it was made production on solaris.
03:42:35<nicolas17>jasonswohl: no, it's more like Microsoft updating FAT16 with FAT32 and ignoring what the Unix world is doing
03:43:27<jasonswohl>nicolas17 fair enough, interesting, and will certainly inspire a rabbit hole at some point :)
03:45:30<jasonswohl>cdub i LOVE the idea and basically everything about ZFS OTHER than its burden on the CPU/RAM. But in theory at least with these DataProcessingUnit things becoming a thing maybe in the nearish future you can have all of the benefits of ZFS and HW raid
03:45:56<jasonswohl>i'm assuming you know what a DPU card is?
03:46:13<jasonswohl>but, basically a NIC+x86/ARM cpu
03:48:00<cdub>jasonswohl i hear you on cpu/ram. but your talking mostly cisc? risc was the real champion in all this i think. and with arm reigniting that fire. all sun chips were risc
03:48:36<cdub>intel went cisc, which worked for a long time.
03:49:17<jasonswohl>IMO i was born a bit too late unfortunately i'm kind of an ass when dealing w/ dumb people, LOVE tech, the cutting edge, how things work, and administration, design, setup, and support of such things. Just partially my own getting in my own way career, never got to be a say, datacenter OPs MGR or something along those lines
03:49:23<cdub>but i think we're watching the collapse. at least amd may hold on
03:50:20<jasonswohl>ok, cdub RISC = reduced instruction set computer or something? what is cisc?
03:50:33<nicolas17>complex instruction
03:50:38<cdub>complex instruction set
03:50:41<nicolas17>lines get blurry nowadays
03:51:00<cdub>nicolas17 is correct
03:51:55<nicolas17>but apparently ARM having fixed-length instructions is proving an advantage over x86's messy variable-length encoding
03:51:57<jasonswohl>like, because i've always LOVED computer "things" i'm gonna do what is within my attention span to stay current but FFS, i'm slightly disappointed in myself @ that one lol
03:52:13<cdub>I think things are trending back towards a defined line
03:53:04<jasonswohl>well sure nicolas17 BUT for the AWS/M$/FB of the world, how much $$$$ is it to recode your entire stack to RISC/ARM? LTT vid recently directly mentioned this
03:53:17<cdub>jasonwohl careful, myself is a person other than you, Lol
03:53:22<nicolas17>not much to re-code
03:53:49<myself>don't worry we've been over it :D
03:54:02<nicolas17>and AWS brags about how much money you can save running your stuff on https://aws.amazon.com/ec2/instance-types/a1/
03:54:09<jasonswohl>cdub ty for that reminder.......... still not used to using "@" for reference of ppl lol
03:55:02<jasonswohl>nicolas17 I mean sure its probably gathered some revenue IMHO
03:55:33<jasonswohl>but, i actually just read (mostly) the entire Q1 backblaze earnings report or w/e
03:55:40<nicolas17>and now you can use your shiny M1 Mac to locally test the code before running it on AWS A1 :P
03:55:46<cdub>nicolas17 risc was always the right architecture, I saw that back in my UUNet days. but people could not peel themselves away from windows and therefore the wintel platform
03:56:02<nicolas17>cdub: a friend calls it "wintendo" because it's only useful for games
03:56:06<jasonswohl>and IMHO (again) anyone who has any vaguely significant need of "cloud" storage is trying to reduce spending
03:57:37<nicolas17>jasonswohl: I meant in response to "AWS having to recode their stack"; AWS is *so* into ARM they're making their own chips
03:57:45<jasonswohl>cdub nicolas17 i agree risc is absolutely better for ~86.9% of things AND that the "x86" architecture is more or less wintendo nowadays because of compatibility, familiarity
03:57:52<cdub>It's really a shame it all went down like it did. I watched it and no one around me, who were far more influential and powerful, couldn't do anything either
03:58:43<nicolas17>cdub: there's some specific blocks of the CPU that Intel *can't* make as fast as Apple due to the ISA
03:59:11<cdub>Because intel fucked themselves
03:59:22<nicolas17>"x86 CPUs today still only feature a 4-wide decoder designs (Intel is 1+3) that is seemingly limited from going wider at this point in time due to the ISA’s inherent variable instruction length nature, making designing decoders that are able to deal with aspect of the architecture more difficult compared to the ARM ISA’s fixed-length instructions"
03:59:49<nicolas17>Apple A14/M1 have 8-wide instruction decoding
04:00:02<cdub>They made bad decisions and have worked themselves into a corner they will never get out of
04:00:07<nicolas17>oh since A13 already
04:00:46<cdub>and sold their souls to dominate a market for 30 years to do so. I forgot that part
04:01:26<jasonswohl>intel selling their souls ?
04:02:46<cdub>Sparc should have ruled the world
04:02:54<cdub>at least for its time
04:03:25<jasonswohl>nicolas17 and sure AWS getting into their own ARM arch when i started reading about it to me at least read as "we have more $ than we know what to do with, lets license our own ARM architecture that we can sell"
04:05:12<jasonswohl>cdub sure sparc didnt "rule the world" or come to the proliferation that x86/arm has nowadays, but please do correct me if i'm wrong, didnt it in its own respects rule the world? (2 years ago as a unix admin @ pratt & whittney their were still sparc based systems)
04:08:35<cdub>jasonswohl yeah, it did, you're absolutely. It just did it at time before it got its due credit. ZFS might be the greatest thing to come out of Sun. I just hate to forget their incredible OS and hardware engineering.
04:10:55<cdub>I worked at a building that processed 90% of all email in the world. All done on Sun hardware. it was a thing of beauty. I would go into the server rooms because the air was so filtered it would fix my allergies instantly.
04:11:21<jasonswohl>cdub so to be honest, the most i know of sparc, SUN, and ETC is from youtube, and talking to "oldtimers" (im nearly 35 for what thats worth) and it just seems that the entire enterprise/consumer electronics space is completely controlled by an ultimate select few who more or less own everything
04:13:11<jasonswohl>cdub that is so. just honestly no words. As my HS grad proj i actually based it on the "invention" of the internet. Over the years i have learned A: how much i kind of got wrong. B: how absolutely people take for granted the internet in general.
04:13:13<cdub>jasonswohl I hear you. i feel like missed the big time by about 5 years. but i saw a lot. don't discount your experiences. they are very valuable..
04:13:50<nicolas17>jasonswohl: a lot of stuff at school is outdated af :P
04:14:20<nicolas17>it's quite common for university-level courses on networking to teach "IP address classes", which haven't been a thing since 1993
04:15:49<jasonswohl>nicolas17 1,000,000,000% outdated, and omissive to a degree that is infuriating. But, IMO and has been occasionally proven, i instill the "gap" upon my son/daughter and i feel for the rest of the "dumb" kids"
04:16:18<jasonswohl>(a billion % if i didnt do the #s right lol ^)
04:16:40<jasonswohl>nicolas17 IP address classes ?! OMFG
04:16:57<jasonswohl>but........... in what context of univ classes?
04:17:01<fireonlive>i'll take 5 class As please
04:18:22<nicolas17>"what's the subnet mask for a class C network"
04:18:31<jasonswohl>i actually just saw one of the best "upcoming" the internet came to be vids on youtube how NAT saved it, now because we were (DID) run out of IPv4) but because this box made it possible to do a >10k device corp network in a weekend
04:19:20<jasonswohl>nicolas17 obv it's a mask that some prominent member of popular culture would have worn duh! :) ( ?s )
04:19:27<jasonswohl>ffs /s
04:21:22<jasonswohl>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLrfqtf4txw guessing at least some of you professionally lived through this in some way
04:21:39<jasonswohl>i thought it'd be kind of boring, but i was wrong
04:27:17yasomi quits [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
04:28:41yasomi (yasomi) joins
04:35:16<jasonswohl>nicolas17 cdub we've gone to sleep it seems?
04:35:29<nicolas17>I should have
04:35:56<jasonswohl>lol, what time zone are you in?
04:41:13<fireonlive>when did CTCP time not be thing anymore :p
04:41:36<fireonlive>oh cdub's client supports it
04:43:51nulldata quits [Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)]
04:44:20<jasonswohl>fireonlive CTCP = ?
04:44:50<fireonlive>oh never mind
04:45:01<fireonlive>my client hides it in the PMs lol
04:45:08<fireonlive>jasonswohl: client to client protocol
04:45:14<fireonlive>/ctcp fireonlive ping
04:45:16nulldata joins
04:45:17<fireonlive>just a special irc message
04:45:56<jasonswohl>ok, i did google the term but there were mant results wanted to double check :)
04:46:00<fireonlive>:)
04:46:21<fireonlive>not as commonly used anymore
04:46:59<jasonswohl>vaguely less so than irc id imagine fireonlive :)
04:47:20<fireonlive>:p
04:49:47<jasonswohl>:)
04:55:22<fireonlive>=]
04:58:15nulldata quits [Client Quit]
05:00:18nulldata joins
05:09:03systwi quits [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
05:18:41BlueMaxima_ quits [Client Quit]
05:26:58nicolas17 quits [Client Quit]
06:05:54systwi (systwi) joins
06:22:02g0tmk quits [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
07:36:13Arcorann (Arcorann) joins
08:16:51hitgrr8 joins
08:57:21icedice (icedice) joins
08:57:51icedice quits [Remote host closed the connection]
08:58:56icedice (icedice) joins
09:37:18imer quits [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
09:39:48imer (imer) joins
09:59:15PredatorIWD_ quits [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:02:38Ruthalas5 quits [Client Quit]
10:02:57Ruthalas5 (Ruthalas) joins
10:03:09PredatorIWD joins
10:21:46TTN quits [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
11:43:14iCaotix quits [Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in]
11:43:35iCaotix joins
11:56:30vegbrasil joins
11:58:00vegbrasil quits [Client Quit]
13:21:34AmAnd0A quits [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
13:21:38AmAnd0A joins
13:44:37Connection closed.
13:44:49atirclog (atirclog) joins
13:44:49Topic: Wanna bikeshed about the topic? | We can't be back on our bullshit if we were never off our bullshit FOREHEADTAP.GIF
13:44:49Topic set by Fusl at 2019-09-06 21:43:25Z
13:44:51rohvani joins
13:44:52yawkat (yawkat) joins
13:44:52Jake (Jake) joins
13:44:52lukash joins
13:44:53igloo22225 (igloo22225) joins
13:44:53VerifiedJ (VerifiedJ) joins
13:44:54monika (boom) joins
13:44:55Sluggs joins
13:44:55PredatorIWD joins
13:44:55monoxane (monoxane) joins
13:44:57OrIdow6 (OrIdow6) joins
13:44:57@ChanServ sets mode: +o OrIdow6
13:44:57kpcyrd (kpcyrd) joins
13:44:58TastyWiener95 (TastyWiener95) joins
13:44:58@OrIdow6 quits [Max SendQ exceeded]
13:44:59AmAnd0A joins
13:44:59le0n (le0n) joins
13:44:59Ruthalas5 (Ruthalas) joins
13:45:01flashfire42 (flashfire42) joins
13:45:01pseudorizer (pseudorizer) joins
13:45:02seadog007 (seadog007) joins
13:45:03geezabiscuit (geezabiscuit) joins
13:45:03Current users: geezabiscuit (geezabiscuit), seadog007 (seadog007), pseudorizer (pseudorizer), flashfire42 (flashfire42), Ruthalas5 (Ruthalas), le0n (le0n), AmAnd0A, TastyWiener95 (TastyWiener95), kpcyrd (kpcyrd), monoxane (monoxane), PredatorIWD, Sluggs, monika (boom), VerifiedJ (VerifiedJ), igloo22225 (igloo22225), lukash, Jake (Jake), yawkat (yawkat), rohvani, atirclog (atirclog), qw3rty, Gereon (Gereon), iCaotix, T31M, diggan (diggan), @JAA (JAA), Jon, imer (imer), icedice (icedice), hitgrr8, Arcorann (Arcorann), systwi (systwi), yasomi (yasomi), Bleo, _Dango360 (Dango360), pabs (pabs), jasonswohl, Iki1, Cydog|m, cdub, SF, nito-kihk (nito-kihk), ehmry, qwertyasdfuiopghjkl (qwertyasdfuiopghjkl), dave (dave), BearFortress, emberquill (emberquill), pie_, benjins2, Muad-Dib, Matthww1, that_lurker (that_lurker), kiska (kiska), s-crypt (s-crypt), Ryz2 (Ryz), benjins (benjins), lk (lk), fireonlive (fireonlive), nukke (nukke), Chris5010 (Chris5010), spirit, Akatsuki, gfhh, @rewby (rewby), Lord_Nightmare (Lord_Nightmare), BigBrain (bigbrain), savethestuffyo (savethestuffyo), Earendil7 (Earendil7), Mateon1, mtmustski, douglasg14b, MactasticMendez (MactasticMendez), driib (driib), Barto (Barto), yano (yano), Letur, Hackerpcs (Hackerpcs), Naruyoko, jess (jess), nothere, Craigle1 (Craigle), HP_Archivist (HP_Archivist), G4te_Keep3r3492, fangfufu (fangfufu), Pichu0202, tzt (tzt), Meli (Meli), Doranwen (Doranwen), lunik173, Aoede (Aoede), Minkafighter, MetaNova (MetaNova), Shjosan (Shjosan), sec^nd (second), @arkiver (arkiver), @Fusl (Fusl), TheTechRobo (TheTechRobo), raxxy-137409, andrew (andrew), cultpony (cultpony), Billy549 (Billy549), kiska5, balrog (balrog), @dxrt (dxrt), Ryz (Ryz), sloop, fuzzy8021 (fuzzy8021), HackMii (hacktheplanet), datechnoman (datechnoman), Kinille (Kinille), zhongfu (zhongfu), vukky (vukky), Suika_, franga2000, Miori, thuban, lumidify (lumidify), AK (AK), aGerman (aGerman), HotSwap (HotSwap), nyany (nyany), ThreeHM (ThreeHeadedMonkey), JensRex (JensRex), Larsenv (Larsenv), luckcolors (luckcolors), ymgve, @Sanqui (Sanqui), wickedplayer494 (wickedplayer494), @rewby|backup (rewby), jodizzle (jodizzle), ArchivalEfforts, JTL (jtl), nickofnicks (nickofnicks), rubberduckie, simon816 (simon816), @AlsoJAA (JAA), h3ndr1k_ (h3ndr1k), Dj-Wawa_, Frogging101, hogchips_, girst (girst), gungagungagunga|m, hexa- (hexa-), nepeat (nepeat), ave (ave), trumad|m, Meroje (Meroje), Explo, Hans5958 (Hans5958), M--mlv|m, IDK_, Terbium, jspiros (jspiros), todb, nstrom|m, Video (Video), Exorcism|m, tech234a (tech234a), Church (Church), whoami (whoami), tartarus (tartarus), s-crypt|m, thermospheric (Thermospheric), jwoglom|m, myself (myself), superusercode (superusercode), wrangle|m, moe-a-m|m, programmerq (programmerq), x9fff00 (x9fff00), FireFly, fionera (Fionera), CrispyAlice2 (CrispyAlice2), GRBaset (GRBaset), masterx244|m, Thibaultmol, qxtal (qxtal), neggles (neggles), SketchCow, NickS|m, dieserniko|m, haha-whered-it-go|m, djasldjasldjalsdj|m, joepie91|m, igneousx (igneousx), DigitalDragon (DigitalDragon), mind_combatant, britmob|m, xxia|m, akaibu|m, schwarzkatz|m, @Sanqui|m (Sanqui), tech234a|m, mikolaj|m, Fletcher (Fletcher), tomodachi94 (tomodachi94), Ajay, mpeter|m, audrooku|m, yzqzss|m, theblazehen|m, rewby|m, MrRadar (MrRadar), kiskaLogBot, dunger (dunger), @HCross (HCross), Hecz (Hecz), mgrytbak, Kenshin, asie2, @kaz (Kaz), sknebel (sknebel), @chfoo (chfoo), Gaelan_ (Gaelan), immibis, maxfan8_ (maxfan8), [42] (N4Y), @hook54321 (hook54321), cptcobalt, omni (omni), mrfooooo, masterX244 (masterX244), Ctrl-S, ghuntley (ghuntley), thejsa, pnJay, mgrandi (mgrandi), @jrwr (jrwr), @ChanServ
13:45:11threedeeitguy (threedeeitguy) joins
13:45:12justcool393 (justcool393) joins
13:45:14chrismeller (chrismeller) joins
13:45:15OrIdow6 (OrIdow6) joins
13:45:15@ChanServ sets mode: +o OrIdow6
13:45:15atphoenix (atphoenix) joins
13:45:15@OrIdow6 quits [Max SendQ exceeded]
13:45:15katocala joins
13:45:17Soulflare joins
13:45:27nulldata joins
13:45:31OrIdow6 (OrIdow6) joins
13:45:31@ChanServ sets mode: +o OrIdow6
13:45:32@OrIdow6 quits [Max SendQ exceeded]
13:45:36DLoader joins
13:45:49BPCZ (BPCZ) joins
13:45:52OrIdow6 (OrIdow6) joins
13:45:52@ChanServ sets mode: +o OrIdow6
13:45:53@OrIdow6 quits [Max SendQ exceeded]
13:46:13OrIdow6 (OrIdow6) joins
13:46:13@ChanServ sets mode: +o OrIdow6
13:46:13@OrIdow6 quits [Max SendQ exceeded]
13:46:29OrIdow6 (OrIdow6) joins
13:46:29@ChanServ sets mode: +o OrIdow6
13:46:30@OrIdow6 quits [Max SendQ exceeded]
13:46:48pseudorizer quits [Client Quit]
13:46:50OrIdow6 (OrIdow6) joins
13:46:50@ChanServ sets mode: +o OrIdow6
13:46:51@OrIdow6 quits [Max SendQ exceeded]
13:47:12OrIdow6 (OrIdow6) joins
13:47:12@ChanServ sets mode: +o OrIdow6
13:47:12@OrIdow6 quits [Max SendQ exceeded]
13:47:14pseudorizer (pseudorizer) joins
13:47:32OrIdow6 (OrIdow6) joins
13:47:33@ChanServ sets mode: +o OrIdow6
13:47:33@OrIdow6 quits [Max SendQ exceeded]
13:47:53OrIdow6 (OrIdow6) joins
13:47:53@ChanServ sets mode: +o OrIdow6
13:47:54@OrIdow6 quits [Max SendQ exceeded]
13:48:15OrIdow6 (OrIdow6) joins
13:48:15@ChanServ sets mode: +o OrIdow6
13:48:15@OrIdow6 quits [Max SendQ exceeded]
13:48:36OrIdow6 (OrIdow6) joins
13:48:36@ChanServ sets mode: +o OrIdow6
13:48:36@OrIdow6 quits [Max SendQ exceeded]
13:48:56OrIdow6 (OrIdow6) joins
13:48:56@ChanServ sets mode: +o OrIdow6
13:48:57@OrIdow6 quits [Max SendQ exceeded]
13:49:17OrIdow6 (OrIdow6) joins
13:49:17@ChanServ sets mode: +o OrIdow6
13:49:17@OrIdow6 quits [Max SendQ exceeded]
13:49:37OrIdow6 (OrIdow6) joins
13:49:38@ChanServ sets mode: +o OrIdow6
14:50:26Arcorann quits [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
15:29:10tzt quits [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
15:30:24tzt (tzt) joins
15:40:44<@JAA>OrIdow6: Looks like your client needs some configuration tweaks to avoid 'Max SendQ exceeded' on reconnecting. (Happened last time as well.)
15:50:41<fireonlive>if anyone was wondering why the netsplit: :zakx!zakx@yolo.pro NOTICE $$nuke.hackint.org :quick heads-up, going to quickly restart this ircd due to underlying hardware failure, will be back soon
15:52:10<@JAA>Technically not a netsplit, by the way. But thanks, I had missed that in the reconnect spam. :-)
15:52:23<fireonlive>:)
15:52:34<fireonlive>true true
15:52:57<fireonlive>no 'two+ islands'
15:54:49<fireonlive>i do remember trying to figure out where most of the people were back when haha
16:04:59c3manu (c3manu) joins
16:29:47icedice quits [Client Quit]
17:07:06katocala quits [Remote host closed the connection]
17:07:46AmAnd0A quits [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
17:08:51AmAnd0A joins
17:11:19katocala joins
17:25:19Roki_100|m joins
18:03:23that_lurker quits [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:03:51that_lurker (that_lurker) joins
18:13:01happymanatea joins
18:33:32<fireonlive>FYI, let's encrypt is down for now
18:33:44<fireonlive>oops, it's back
18:33:50<fireonlive>they're quick!
18:37:00<fireonlive>here's an overview for nerds :p https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36342808
18:46:37<nito-kihk>nice read
19:32:00c3manu quits [Client Quit]
19:48:05Shjosan quits [Quit: Am sleepy (-, – )…zzzZZZ]
19:49:08Shjosan (Shjosan) joins
20:24:27happymanatea quits [Remote host closed the connection]
20:38:07AmAnd0A quits [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:38:32AmAnd0A joins
22:13:11cdub quits [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
22:17:21imer quits [Client Quit]
22:18:11imer (imer) joins
22:19:07imer quits [Client Quit]
22:19:58hitgrr8 quits [Client Quit]
22:21:32imer (imer) joins
22:26:06<@OrIdow6>Thanks JAA, need to change my setup a bit anyway so can do that all in one stroke soon
23:13:35nicolas17 joins

HomeSearchPrevious dayNext day