| 00:34:49 | | DLoader_ joins |
| 00:35:55 | | DLoader quits [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] |
| 00:35:59 | | DLoader_ is now known as DLoader |
| 00:48:06 | | Jonimus joins |
| 00:49:17 | <flashfire42> | skyrock.com well this site is a scary look at the amount of things we leave abandoned as young folks. The pages I have accidentally caught in my search for DRM are mostly teens that have posted stuff about themselves... |
| 00:55:29 | | DLoader quits [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] |
| 01:07:27 | | DLoader joins |
| 01:22:51 | | jacksonchen666_ (jacksonchen666) joins |
| 01:23:17 | | qwertyasdfuiopghjkl joins |
| 01:25:06 | | jacksonchen666 quits [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] |
| 01:26:42 | | qwertyasdfuiopghjkl quits [Client Quit] |
| 01:27:41 | | jacksonchen666_ is now known as jacksonchen666 |
| 01:29:14 | | qwertyasdfuiopghjkl joins |
| 01:37:27 | | pabs quits [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] |
| 01:39:13 | | pabs (pabs) joins |
| 01:59:22 | | DLoader_ joins |
| 01:59:59 | | DLoader quits [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] |
| 02:00:03 | | DLoader_ is now known as DLoader |
| 02:20:47 | | DLoader quits [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] |
| 02:31:06 | | AlsoTheTechRobo64 joins |
| 02:31:13 | | AlsoTheTechRobo64 is now known as AlsoAlsoTheTechRobo |
| 02:31:17 | | DLoader joins |
| 02:31:45 | <AlsoAlsoTheTechRobo> | Merry Christmas to everybody! :-) |
| 02:46:50 | | Wingy quits [Read error: Connection reset by peer] |
| 02:47:06 | | Wingy0 (Wingy) joins |
| 03:06:17 | | DLoader quits [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] |
| 03:08:51 | | jacksonchen666 quits [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] |
| 03:09:44 | | icedice joins |
| 03:10:26 | <icedice> | Should I format a new external hard drive even if it already works fine and is already in NTFS? |
| 03:10:48 | | DLoader joins |
| 03:10:54 | | jacksonchen666 (jacksonchen666) joins |
| 03:13:44 | | AlsoAlsoTheTechRobo quits [Remote host closed the connection] |
| 03:15:15 | <@JAA> | I'd test the drive before putting it to any use. Which renders the question moot because by normal routine for HDD testing is destructive. |
| 03:18:20 | <icedice> | I've just done an extended test with WD's Data Lifeguard Diagnostic for Windows and it passed |
| 03:19:10 | <icedice> | So I guess I'm good then and don't need any reformatting |
| 03:58:40 | <@JAA> | No idea what that does. My routine consists of short SMART test + long SMART test + fio randrw. The last part is the destructive one. I've also used badblocks at times. (All of these are independent of the drive manufacturer and don't rely on drive-specific software.) |
| 04:00:03 | <icedice> | Ok |
| 04:00:08 | <@JAA> | WD Data Lifguard Diagnostics on Windows is an EOL software, by the way, no longer supported since over a year: https://support-en.wd.com/app/answers/detailweb/a_id/31835/~/end-of-support-for-wd-data-lifguard-diagnostics-on-windows |
| 04:00:21 | <icedice> | Yeah, I know |
| 04:01:12 | <@JAA> | But for the original question, if the file system is well-formed and doesn't have weird settings, no reason not to just use it I guess. |
| 04:01:24 | <icedice> | I told the same to the data hoarder that recommended it to me and he said that he hadn't used the new one |
| 04:01:37 | <icedice> | So I went with the one that is known to be good |
| 04:02:00 | | Arcorann_ joins |
| 04:02:11 | <@JAA> | Another reason why it's irrelevant to me is that no HDDs come with ext4, plus I virtually always throw LUKS on it anyway. |
| 04:05:52 | <icedice> | I was considering trying out VeraCrypt on it, but I was afraid of some decryption error locking up my data |
| 04:06:18 | <icedice> | So I just did the normie thing and didn't use encryption |
| 04:06:46 | <icedice> | Figured since the HDD it's mirroring isn't encrypted either, there's not as much of a point in doing it |
| 04:16:03 | | Arcorann_ quits [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] |
| 04:35:59 | | Meli quits [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] |
| 04:38:36 | | Meli (Meli) joins |
| 04:40:48 | | BlueMaxima joins |
| 04:43:50 | | tzt quits [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] |
| 04:56:19 | | Arcorann_ joins |
| 04:56:49 | <BPCZ> | icedice: mirror to encrypted drive, format original drive, mirror back |
| 05:10:17 | | Craigle quits [Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat] |
| 05:10:54 | | Craigle (Craigle) joins |
| 05:56:16 | | BlueMaxima quits [Client Quit] |
| 06:54:41 | | HackMii quits [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] |
| 06:55:38 | | HackMii (hacktheplanet) joins |
| 07:55:14 | | pabs quits [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] |
| 08:00:51 | | pabs (pabs) joins |
| 08:53:44 | <icedice> | BPCZ: Can't someone just use Recuva and see it anyway? |
| 09:00:11 | <BPCZ> | icedice: well you’d wipe the drive fully and do a full zeroing |
| 09:00:51 | <icedice> | What is a full zeroing? Filling up the drive completely? |
| 09:04:40 | <@JAA> | Overwriting the entire drive with zero bits. Random bits would theoretically be better because that makes it impossible to tell which sectors have been in use at some point since you created the encryption container, but that's a very specific and mostly negligible benefit. |
| 09:06:12 | <icedice> | Ah ok |
| 09:06:35 | <icedice> | I guess that's something that Eraser can do |
| 09:07:23 | <@JAA> | There are literally more tools for this task out there than people in this channel. :-) |
| 09:07:42 | <icedice> | And I guess the Gutmann method should be applied as well |
| 09:09:17 | <@JAA> | That's been pretty much obsolete for at least 15 years now. |
| 09:10:57 | <@JAA> | Unless maybe if you worry about nation states as your enemy (in which case, WTF are you doing here? :-P), a single wipe of any kind is sufficient. |
| 09:13:15 | <icedice> | If a nation state was my enemy I would dispose of the drives, get new ones, and not even be asking this question |
| 09:14:06 | <icedice> | You're saying it's obsolete, but overkill though |
| 09:14:19 | <icedice> | Kind of contradicting statements |
| 09:23:00 | <@JAA> | Well, there are a couple issues with that method. Fundamentally, you may always have data remaining on the platters even if you overwrite it many times. It's a physical thing, and the grains right next to the data track may still contain information after 'wiping' (especially if the track alignment of the write head is less than perfect, as was more common in older disks). The only things that can |
| 09:23:06 | <@JAA> | make sure the data is actually gone are very strong magnets/degaussing or heating the thing above its Curie temperature, both of which destroy the magnetic fields across the entire platter, not just where the write head can read. |
| 09:23:49 | <@JAA> | reach* |
| 09:26:36 | <@JAA> | With modern drives, areal density is so high and the heads so accurate that effectively, a single write will get rid of the data to the point that it's pretty much impossible to recover. Remember that he wrote that paper in the mid-90s, and the method accounts for HDDs that were already ancient at that time, like stuff from the 70s. |
| 09:30:01 | <@JAA> | The method was developed specifically 'because intelligence agencies might use a magentic force microscope to recover the information!!1!', and if that's relevant for someone, they should absolutely not rely on the disk doing the right thing and still being aligned exactly with how the original data tracks were written potentially years prior with lots of wear and tear on the components since. |
| 09:31:37 | <monoxane> | the solution to destroying drives is to just put them in thermite and light it :P |
| 09:31:38 | <@JAA> | But for anyone who cares whether someone breaking into their house and stealing stuff or someone buying your HDD second-hand after you no longer need it might be able to recover your data, a single wipe is sufficient for drives made in the past 15-20 years. |
| 09:32:00 | <monoxane> | or acid etch the platters to bare glass |
| 09:32:30 | <@JAA> | Yeah, melting is one way to heat the platters above their Curie temperature, I suppose. :-P |
| 09:33:36 | <@JAA> | Might need a very strong acid to actually dissolve the grains, but yeah, that should be fine as well. |
| 09:34:14 | <@JAA> | Getting your hands on an Nd magnet to run across the platter surface is probably cheaper. Definitely less fun than the thermite though. |
| 09:37:27 | | Jake quits [Quit: Leaving for a bit!] |
| 09:38:02 | | Jake (Jake) joins |
| 09:39:29 | | Jake quits [Client Quit] |
| 09:42:54 | <monoxane> | well once the grains are no longer fixed to the surface of the platter it doesnt matter what orientation theyre in or if theyre still a grain because no one can work out what order they go in |
| 09:43:09 | | Jake (Jake) joins |
| 09:43:26 | | Jake quits [Client Quit] |
| 09:43:36 | <@JAA> | Eh, it's just the world's most difficult puzzle at that point. :-P |
| 09:43:47 | <@JAA> | But yeah, true. |
| 09:44:17 | | Jake (Jake) joins |
| 09:51:16 | <@JAA> | Finding data on the Curie temperature of the alloy used on HDDs is hard, but there's an ancient discussion about it on Overclockers: https://www.overclockers.com/forums/threads/what-is-the-curie-point-of-hdd-magnetic-platters.454159/ |
| 09:56:34 | <monoxane> | theres also a defcon talk about it from like 2015 |
| 09:56:41 | <monoxane> | which is where the thermite idea came from |
| 10:55:10 | <@JAA> | Ah, that one, yeah. Only mentions the Curie temperature in passing though and only the one for pure Cobalt, not the alloy. |
| 11:06:23 | | spirit joins |
| 11:31:50 | | HackMii quits [Remote host closed the connection] |
| 11:32:46 | | HackMii (hacktheplanet) joins |
| 11:42:42 | | Sluggs joins |
| 12:47:11 | <systwi> | I love how ubuntu.org redirects to some Microsoft Simcast page. -_- |
| 12:47:16 | | systwi doesn't love that |
| 13:06:07 | | hitgrr8 joins |
| 13:14:45 | <@rewby> | Consider: Big induction coil + hdd == melty metal |
| 13:24:24 | <icedice> | A guy I know who used to run an office supply store had some giant drill machine for destroying hard drives |
| 13:24:45 | <icedice> | I assume enterprise customers had him decommission their old hard drives |
| 13:26:59 | <icedice> | His car got hit head on by a truck though, so that service no longer exists |
| 13:28:07 | <icedice> | I did decommission some enterprise drives myself when I interned at an IT support company when I was 14 |
| 13:29:06 | <icedice> | I etched the shit out of the platters with a screwdriver |
| 13:34:50 | | Meli quits [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] |
| 13:35:55 | | Arcorann_ quits [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] |
| 13:36:26 | | Meli (Meli) joins |
| 13:45:18 | | pie_ quits [] |
| 13:45:34 | | pie_ joins |
| 13:49:47 | | pie_ quits [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] |
| 13:52:19 | | pie_ joins |
| 14:02:51 | | icedice2 joins |
| 14:06:02 | | icedice2 quits [Read error: Connection reset by peer] |
| 14:06:15 | | icedice quits [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] |
| 14:06:34 | | icedice joins |
| 14:27:50 | | icedice2 joins |
| 14:27:50 | | icedice quits [Read error: Connection reset by peer] |
| 14:30:30 | | icedice2 quits [Client Quit] |
| 14:30:47 | | icedice joins |
| 14:38:31 | | jacksonchen666 quits [Remote host closed the connection] |
| 14:42:28 | | IDK (IDK) joins |
| 15:02:56 | | jacksonchen666 (jacksonchen666) joins |
| 15:33:24 | | icedice quits [Client Quit] |
| 15:35:21 | | icedice joins |
| 15:55:22 | | HP_Archivist (HP_Archivist) joins |
| 16:10:57 | | icedice quits [Client Quit] |
| 16:21:10 | | HP_Archivist quits [Client Quit] |
| 16:51:19 | | IDK quits [Client Quit] |
| 18:16:34 | | DLoader_ joins |
| 18:20:27 | | DLoader quits [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] |
| 18:20:36 | | DLoader_ is now known as DLoader |
| 20:40:02 | | tzt (tzt) joins |
| 20:43:26 | | jacksonchen666 quits [Remote host closed the connection] |
| 20:44:12 | | jacksonchen666 (jacksonchen666) joins |
| 21:05:03 | | spirit quits [Client Quit] |
| 22:08:01 | | jacksonchen666 quits [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] |
| 22:08:57 | | jacksonchen666 (jacksonchen666) joins |
| 23:26:09 | | hitgrr8 quits [Client Quit] |
| 23:48:20 | | BlueMaxima joins |
| 23:52:26 | | Arcorann_ joins |
| 23:57:20 | | JackThompson3 quits [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] |