HomeSearchPrevious dayNext day

00:08:23fishingforsoup_ quits [Client Quit]
00:08:40fishingforsoup joins
00:18:42omglolbah quits [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
00:36:19hitgrr8 quits [Client Quit]
00:37:03jacksonchen666 quits [Remote host closed the connection]
00:38:17jacksonchen666 (jacksonchen666) joins
01:08:05jacksonchen666 quits [Remote host closed the connection]
01:08:33jacksonchen666 (jacksonchen666) joins
01:16:48<pabs>https://open-archive.org/ https://open-archive.org/jobs/tech-lead
01:29:09systwi quits [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
01:29:56systwi (systwi) joins
01:46:54jacksonchen666 quits [Remote host closed the connection]
01:48:02jacksonchen666 (jacksonchen666) joins
02:15:57jacobk quits [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
02:32:11omglolbah joins
03:00:21<systwi>Is there any benefit to formatting XML data like this: https://transfer.archivete.am/zxhVE/example2.xml
03:00:26<systwi>versus this?: https://transfer.archivete.am/tg7Y1/example1.xml
03:01:14<systwi>Are there particular use cases where one is preferred over the other?
03:01:40<systwi>or maybe even a hybrid of both?
03:02:00<@JAA>Uh, I mean, HTML is a hybrid.
03:03:13<systwi>I meant, as in, are there any specific reasons why one might use the first example, the second example, or both together.
03:03:40<Frogging101>https://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/421831/temporary-policy-chatgpt-is-banned
03:03:41<systwi>I've seen all three styles in use before.
03:03:45<Frogging101>It's over. It's well and truly over.
03:03:54<@JAA>Not by itself, but you can give it semantic meaning. In HTML, subelements are tags and properties are attributes.
03:04:44<@JAA>You could have: <department name="IT"><employee name="John Doe" /><employee name="Jane Doe" /></department>
03:05:21<@JAA>That would be the HTML-like distinction between tags and attributes.
03:06:31<@JAA>If you want to model this container-elements relationship, it almost always only makes sense as nested tags.
03:07:32<@JAA>Representing properties of a container as a subtag then just makes it a bit messy, but there's no fundamental reason why you can't do it.
03:08:04<@JAA>Or perhaps this: <department><name>IT</name><employees><employee><name>John Doe</name></employee><employee><name>Jane Doe</name></employee></employees></department>
03:08:15<@JAA>Just comes down to personal preference, I think.
03:09:09<systwi>Okay. So, if I'm understanding it correctly, both of your examples essentially represent the same data (in XML, but maybe also in HTML?), but with different formatting.
03:09:30<systwi>No real difference aside from structure.
03:09:58<@JAA>Yeah, it's just a different structure for the same data.
03:10:13<systwi>I see, I see.
03:10:22<systwi>Thank you for the help. :-)
03:10:26<@JAA>And yeah, it could be valid HTML5 I think. IIRC, that allows you to define custom tags. I was thinking XML though.
03:10:59<systwi>XML was mainly what I was inquiring about, so that's okay.
03:11:07<@JAA>Choose whatever you prefer, document it well, done. :-)
03:11:34<@JAA>That's how I view it, anyway.
03:11:53<@JAA>Frogging101: It really is over: https://old.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/zd8ljb/i_taught_the_chat_bot_an_alternative_syntax_for/
03:14:25<systwi>A couple of other things, on the subject of XML structure/formatting (if you don't mind). Include or omit a trailing newline? CRLF vs. LF? (CR-only is for madlads :-P ) `encoding="UTF-8"` vs. `encoding="utf-8"`?
03:14:35<systwi>Tabs vs. spaces?
03:15:06<systwi>They're all, probably, dependent on the interpreter (how tolerant it is built).
03:16:29<@JAA>My personal preferences: include trailing newline, LF, UTF-8, tabs. Except for the capitalisation of UTF-8, same as any text/code-ish file I produce. :-)
03:16:36<systwi>Maybe I'm looking too deep into storing data, intended for human reading/writing, that could simply be stored in a spreadsheet, hahaha. :-)
03:16:58<@JAA>If a parser can't handle these, it's broken.
03:17:51<@JAA>I'd use JSON for everything anyway these days.
03:19:01<systwi>Nice, thanks. I used to use tabs for everything but switched to spaces a while ago. The rest of your preferences jive with mine, although my XML documents used capitalised `UTF-8`.
03:19:16<@JAA>Well, maybe not spreadsheets, but if it's going to be a small dataset and intended to be directly edited by humans, something like JSON or TOML would be the way to go.
03:21:03<@JAA>XML is a pain and very error-prone to edit manually.
03:21:04<systwi>I can never make up my mind as to which format I want to use. CSV/TSV, TOML, YAML, XML, JSON, etc. I start one, then move to the next, then eventually to SQLite, then to PostgreSQL, and that's where I say, "wait a minute, a Postgres database for tracking which Pokémon use which nicknames in my game?" :-P
03:21:24<@JAA>Heh
03:22:07<systwi>The tough thing is finding validators that aren't all JS dumpster fires.
03:22:22<systwi>Notepad++ helps in some areas, but not all.
03:22:38<systwi>or Firefox, for validating an XML for example.
03:23:22<@JAA>'Validating' has many meanings.
03:23:30<systwi>YAML sounded promising but I ran into that ^ issue re: offline validators.
03:24:04<@JAA>One is whether it follows the markup language spec. (Have fun there with CSV/TSV, for which no specs exist.)
03:24:15<systwi>Ah, my meaning is, "does my syntax match what is expected of YAML/XML/... documents."
03:24:16<@JAA>But you might also want to validate that it matches your schema.
03:24:34<systwi>Yeah, language spec, yeah.
03:25:25<@JAA>On my system, I have `xmlparse` for XML validation, `python3 -m json.tool` for JSON (good enough is good enough). Haven't had a need for validating the others locally so far.
03:27:55<systwi>I've considered including a separate file.csv.ini file, detailing escape characters, whitespace collapsing, whether or not data types are taken into consideration, line terminators, etc.
03:28:07<systwi>(for CSV/TSV files, of course)
03:28:40<@JAA>Eww
03:28:42katocala joins
03:28:42<@JAA>:-)
03:29:16<systwi>to put _some_ grasp on the no-spec madness.
03:29:20<systwi>Hehehe
03:30:11<@JAA>By adding another underspecified, ancient format into the mix. lol
03:30:23<systwi>:-)
03:30:55<systwi>Maybe a JSON to describe the .ini file?
03:31:06<systwi>file.csv.ini.json
03:31:18<systwi>file.csv.ini.json.zst
03:31:31<systwi>for when it gets too big. :-P
03:31:38<@JAA>I was just trying to think of another awful old format, but don't remember any others.
03:32:58<systwi>MSP for old mspaint images?
03:33:07<systwi>Not a markup document.
03:33:31<@JAA>Yeah, document the INI format in an image just to fuck with people, that sounds good to me. :-)
03:34:08<@JAA>And now I'm thinking of th MS Paint IDE again.
03:35:12<@JAA>Would probably be the appropriate dev environment for implementing this Lovecraftian nightmare though. :-)
03:35:33<systwi>Compress the image using a proprietary compression algorithm, only uncompressable by hunting down a 1988 copy of the program (company went out of business around that time) and running it on old hardware.
03:36:10<systwi>"Haha, Rickrolled!"
03:36:16<systwi>:-P
03:37:05<@JAA>Funny, there was someone in #python the other day trying to reverse-engineer an ancient proprietary database format. Only thing they had was files in the format and a decompiled Java code (i.e. no sensible variable names etc.).
03:37:07<systwi>An mspaint IDE might work, if you create a monochrome BMP with it and write in binary.
03:37:12<systwi>:-P
03:37:44<@JAA>Although well, not quite 1988-ancient given it was Java. But same difference.
03:37:49<systwi>Hah, interesting. #python on hackint?
03:38:09<@JAA>I was referring to this thing I found a few weeks ago and linked here at the time: https://ms-paint-i.de/
03:38:14<@JAA>No, on Libera.
03:43:11<systwi>Hah, that's so weird, but cool!
03:43:55<systwi>I saw a video of somebody running Doom inside of an unmodified notepad.exe.
03:44:08<systwi>*unmodified binary
03:46:33<systwi>https://yewtu.be/watch?v=a3VoEyaqMoc
03:48:06<@JAA>Nice
03:48:31<@JAA>My favourite's still the pregnancy test, and I'm not sure that'll get beaten.
03:51:06<systwi>Get those kids started on Doom early. :-P
03:51:26<@JAA>:-)
03:51:28<systwi>That's pretty cool, too. Forgot about that one.
04:00:33<systwi>Not Doom, but also equally...bizarre: https://github.com/smealum/butthax
04:03:56ThreeHM quits [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
04:04:37ThreeHM (ThreeHeadedMonkey) joins
04:12:22<@JAA>Heh, didn't see that one before, but there was one about a 'smart vibrator' as well.
04:12:35<@JAA>Also: https://github.com/smealum/butthax/issues/2
04:14:25jacobk joins
04:18:38<systwi>Hah! Didn't see that issue thread before.
04:46:27Jonimus quits [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
05:09:46fishingforsoup quits [Client Quit]
05:10:56fishingforsoup joins
05:19:08Jonimus joins
05:49:09benjins quits [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
05:49:31DiscantX quits [Quit: WeeChat 2.3]
05:52:34DiscantX joins
05:58:59cajually quits [Remote host closed the connection]
06:04:54Arcorann (Arcorann) joins
06:16:14BlueMaxima quits [Client Quit]
06:31:57benjins joins
06:33:55shoghicp quits [Remote host closed the connection]
06:36:09shoghicp (shoghicp) joins
07:34:05hitgrr8 joins
08:25:25fishingforsoup quits [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
08:28:06fishingforsoup joins
08:55:47sonick quits [Client Quit]
11:20:07jacksonchen666 quits [Remote host closed the connection]
11:20:08sec^nd quits [Write error: Broken pipe]
11:22:14jacksonchen666 (jacksonchen666) joins
11:23:28sonick (sonick) joins
11:31:06jacksonchen666 quits [Remote host closed the connection]
11:37:15jacksonchen666 (jacksonchen666) joins
12:46:27Arcorann quits [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
12:48:04fishingforsoup_ joins
12:49:19mut4ntm0nkey quits [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
12:51:15fishingforsoup quits [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
12:52:17mut4ntm0nkey (mutantmonkey) joins
13:06:30le0n quits [Quit: see you later, alligator]
13:14:35jacksonchen666 quits [Remote host closed the connection]
13:14:55mut4ntm0nkey quits [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
13:15:16jacksonchen666 (jacksonchen666) joins
13:22:38mut4ntm0nkey (mutantmonkey) joins
13:33:59sec^nd (second) joins
13:41:42le0n (le0n) joins
14:18:10qwertyasdfuiopghjkl quits [Remote host closed the connection]
14:33:51sec^nd quits [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
14:36:41sec^nd (second) joins
15:04:38qwertyasdfuiopghjkl joins
15:05:37jacobk quits [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
15:21:43jacobk joins
15:29:01onetruth quits [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:34:09jacobk quits [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
15:36:06Meli quits [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
15:37:09Meli (Meli) joins
16:21:57Minkafighter7 quits [Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat]
16:35:49jacobk joins
16:42:09Minkafighter7 joins
16:42:55sec^nd quits [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
16:43:34Minkafighter7 quits [Client Quit]
16:45:09Minkafighter7 joins
16:46:31HP_Archivist (HP_Archivist) joins
16:46:35Minkafighter7 quits [Client Quit]
16:47:25Minkafighter7 joins
16:48:55sec^nd (second) joins
17:02:58sec^nd quits [Remote host closed the connection]
17:04:32sec^nd (second) joins
17:30:54HP_Archivist quits [Client Quit]
18:09:21jacobk quits [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
18:18:44jacksonchen666 quits [Remote host closed the connection]
18:22:48jacksonchen666 (jacksonchen666) joins
18:30:45T31M quits [Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in]
18:31:04T31M joins
18:32:15T31M quits [Remote host closed the connection]
18:32:41T31M joins
18:49:10jacobk joins
19:46:49sonick quits [Client Quit]
19:47:36phuzion leaves [https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.]
20:12:04jacobk quits [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
20:25:50jacobk joins
20:33:39jacobk quits [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
21:08:31michaelblob quits [Client Quit]
21:47:27sonick (sonick) joins
22:07:27hexa- quits [Quit: WeeChat 3.7.1]
22:08:39hexa- (hexa-) joins
22:12:42jacobk joins
22:24:50BlueMaxima joins
22:28:50katocala quits [Remote host closed the connection]
22:45:45Ruthalas quits [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
22:59:04Ruthalas (Ruthalas) joins
23:24:28jacobk quits [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
23:36:34hitgrr8 quits [Client Quit]

HomeSearchPrevious dayNext day