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00:46:48<jamesp>kiwifarms has been removed from archive.org: https://poa.st/notice/ANIo9rAcFUi8pMt5RQ
00:46:56<jamesp>same thing happened with nintendo.co.uk
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01:23:23<@JAA>This wasn't already the case?
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01:30:34<TheTechRobo>JAA: Kiwifarms wasn't already excluded
01:30:37<TheTechRobo>Not sure about Ninty
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01:33:11<@JAA>Huh
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01:36:13<TheTechRobo>JAA: https://twitter.com/remembrancermx/status/1567228851608240129
01:37:20<@JAA>Cheers
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13:51:12<systwi_>Re: archiving BetaArchive, I was poking around their site about a month ago and was planning on doing some sort of archival of their collection. I have some software pending archival (not found elsewhere on the web) that I think might subsequently grant me access to their server.
13:51:44<systwi_>If someone here already has access to their FTP server that would probably make the job easier, heh.
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15:38:15<theblazehen|m>https://ipfscluster.io/ Anyone played with this? Seems like it could be useful
15:38:37<theblazehen|m>https://ipfscluster.io/documentation/collaborative/
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17:47:26<theblazehen|m>Anyone found the limit on https://www.sync.com/unlimited-cloud-storage/ ?
17:50:21<@JAA>Search on /r/DataHoarder, chances are someone there tried to abuse every single cloud storage or backup service before.
17:50:46<theblazehen|m>Good call, ty
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18:13:29<Jake>https://www.sync.com/help/how-does-unlimited-storage-work/
18:13:38<Jake>What is the maximum transfer speed? 40 Megabits per second (5 Megabytes per second).
18:13:39<Jake>lol
18:14:53<spirit>sounds perfect for archiving betaarchive
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18:53:55<systwi_>From some crummy advert: "If you spend time on your computer, this vintage game is a must-have. No install."
18:54:00<systwi_>> ...vintage...
18:54:03<systwi_>> ...no install...
18:54:15<systwi_>So it loads straight off the floppy?
18:54:46<systwi_>Oh, a mobile game from the App Store...no.
19:22:48<theblazehen|m>lmao damn. Makes me think of https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.spookyhousestudios.progressbar95&hl=en&gl=US
19:24:16<systwi_>Hehe, that's neat, I think I've seen it once before.
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20:43:36<TheTechRobo>systwi_: They have some pretty awful limits, though
20:44:00<TheTechRobo>https://www.betaarchive.com/fup.php
20:44:02<TheTechRobo>50GB/day
20:44:09<TheTechRobo>Not sure whether that's SI or power-2
20:46:44<systwi_>I've heard of that cap before, ouch.
20:47:19<systwi_>I also see these lines:
20:47:26<systwi_>"Reduce a user's quota or remove FTP access if they regularly download near the maximum quota over a period of time (usually weeks)"
20:47:42<systwi_>"To avoid being hit by our fair usage policy, you should...refrain from hitting near the 50GB/day quota regularly."
20:50:29<Frogging101>I think "unlimited" offerings are pretty dumb. If there is indeed an upper sanity limit (Which there is, because obviously it's not unlimited), then just make that the limit
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21:01:41<Frogging101>Pretending it's unlimited just leads to having to curtail it, which then leads to bitching and moaning on reddit about it being ruined by "abuse", which is really just another way of saying that there was, in fact, a limit, it just wasn't enforced
21:03:18<systwi_>or disclosed upfront.
21:07:59<Frogging101>...And I have a feeling that many of those who complained would themselves have used more than their share :p
21:09:06<@JAA>What do you mean I can't mirror all the porn there? You said it's unlimited!!1!
21:09:30<TheTechRobo>JAA: No joke, there was someone abusing Google Drive unlimited storage to store nearly a petabyte of ASMR.
21:09:35<TheTechRobo>Was on DataHoarder awhile ago.
21:09:43<Frogging101>No, no, you don't understand. My usage was legitimate and justified. It's everyone else who misused it!
21:09:46<@JAA>Yeah, I wasn't joking. That literally happened.
21:10:10<@JAA>Someone had well over a PB of camgirl recordings on Amazon Drive.
21:10:28<@JAA>It's said that this was part of the reason why that was discontinued.
21:10:59<systwi_>And they're complaining why? Their customers did the work for them. :-P
21:11:18<Frogging101>My petabyte of bullshit is more important than your petabyte of bullshit, and that's why only I can be trusted with unlimited storage
21:13:10<TheTechRobo><JAA> Someone had well over a PB of camgirl recordings on Amazon Drive.
21:13:15<TheTechRobo>This is why we can't have good things
21:13:47<@OrIdow6>Frogging101: Haha
21:13:55<Frogging101>What are the good things though? The ability to store a PB of data?
21:14:02<Frogging101>(for a low, flat rate)
21:14:05<systwi_>TheTechRobo: Well, I mean, if it was publicly accessible we would...
21:14:08<systwi_>:-P
21:14:48<TheTechRobo>Frogging101: Just things in general. You get good terms from a company, someone misuses it, you lose.
21:16:27<Frogging101>What is misuse? Using too much? How much? Nobody knows. They don't tell you how much storage they really have or how much it really costs
21:17:26<@JAA>https://old.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/6583s2/the_petabyte_porn_problem_public_webcam_social/
21:17:42<systwi_>The term "misuse" is too subjective IMO.
21:17:51<systwi_>Too vague.
21:19:26<@OrIdow6>The division may not be a clear line but there are cases where it's clear that something is/isn't misuse
21:19:48<@OrIdow6>Using Google Apps for Education to store manually-created documents from students in a school=not misuse
21:20:17<@OrIdow6>Using Google Apps for Education to store petabytes of build artifacts for random games=misuse
21:22:31<Frogging101>Then why do they let you store petabytes of data?
21:22:45<@OrIdow6>Part of the issue is, I guess, that in that situation "misuse" means to Google something that violates their calculation that they will recieve so much benefit for so much cost
21:23:07<@OrIdow6>While normal people operate in terms of more specific uses as I've described
21:23:22<TheTechRobo>Frogging101: I guess so more people use it. Publicity and everything. Also if you store a ton of data you really can't leave the service.
21:23:36<@OrIdow6>The same reason Olive Garden has unlimited breadsticks even though they're not going to send a truck over if you eat too fast
21:24:05<@JAA>Also so the users don't need to think about it at all.
21:25:00<@OrIdow6>Like, there's "unlimited" in a theoretical sense, and then there's "unlimited" in a sense of "you'll never hit a limit", and the latter is what they're assumign with the marketing term
21:26:06<@OrIdow6>And even though it's a finite resource they can assume you'll never hit a limit as long as they assume you consume at a human rate
21:26:13<systwi_>It can get blurry when out of context, though. What about hosting a large collection of malware? Right away, I think many would immediately close it down and mark it as "misuse;" however, what if it is for the purpose of education/studying/testing and NOT with the intention of deceiving others into unintentionally downloading and running malware or
21:26:13<systwi_> using it immorally?
21:26:41<TheTechRobo>I know GitHub allows that, or at least they let it slide. (No idea what their ToS says...)
21:26:59<systwi_>Most companies aren't going to ask you "why?" first, they'll just pull it down.
21:27:08<Frogging101>It seems people are simultaneously advocating that a resource (say, the ability to store 1PB at a low flat rate) should be available, but also that nobody should dare use it
21:27:11<TheTechRobo>https://github.com/Endermanch/MalwareDatabase
21:27:35<TheTechRobo>ProTip: Don't read the issues on there. they're literal cancer
21:27:44<@OrIdow6>systwi_: What necessitates that context need be taken away?
21:28:09<systwi_>TheTechRobo: SourceForce seems relatively lenient on that, too. Software determined to be malicious is marked as such, but can still be downloaded.
21:28:57<TheTechRobo>Wait
21:28:59<TheTechRobo>Holy shit
21:29:02<TheTechRobo>GitHub did a thing?
21:29:06<systwi_>OrIdow6: Sorry? I'm not following.
21:29:19<TheTechRobo>The cancer is gone!
21:29:24<TheTechRobo>(Or, most of it at least.)
21:29:34<@JAA>TheTechRobo: Yeah, there are a couple repos like that. Their TOS say that you can't use them for active attacks etc. https://docs.github.com/en/site-policy/acceptable-use-policies/github-acceptable-use-policies#5-site-access-and-safety
21:30:37<systwi_>"...with no implicit or explicit dual-use purpose prior to the abuse occurring..." - I appreciate this line.
21:30:50<TheTechRobo>(For context, here is a tiny bit of the cancer. http://web.archive.org/web/20220713133844/https://github.com/Endermanch/MalwareDatabase/issues/283 )
21:31:22<@OrIdow6>Frogging101: If you want to be more formal about it, what I/we are advocating is that people only use it for certain things - yes, 1 PB is 1 PB, but code is neither law, morality, or pact, and in addition to the technical limitations there are human/social ones
21:32:09<@OrIdow6>systwi_: "It can get blurry when out of context" - what I mean is, I don't think this is a problem, just keep including context
21:32:30<@OrIdow6>*noe
21:32:33<@OrIdow6>**nor
21:33:35<@OrIdow6>Obviously there's ambiguity even with context, and with/without isn't a binary, but it helps a lot
21:34:10<Frogging101>Well, then I think general purpose private storage isn't really the proper medium for something that would benefit people but only if used for certain purposes
21:36:27<systwi_>OrIdow6: Right, yes, I agree. I meant "out of context" as in, many companies, I feel, are likely to "pull the plug" on someone's service _before_ asking them/attempting to ask them questions first, as to why they're hosting what they're hosting, why they're consuming so much disk space, etc.
21:39:38<@OrIdow6>Frogging101: What would be the alternative to general purpose private?
21:39:49<@OrIdow6>Oh systwi_, fair
21:40:58<Frogging101>Specified purposes to ensure that the limited resource is used effectively
21:41:16<Frogging101>Like the internet archive
21:43:23<systwi_>Good point. Would it be considered abuse for IA to mirror their content on a cloud storage provider that offers "unlimited" storage space?
21:43:56<@OrIdow6>archive.org allows (with certain odd restrictions with certain formats that their software can't read) arbitrary bytes to be uploaded, the difference between them and google drive is that it's public and that they manually inspect and take down things
21:44:40<@OrIdow6>The only essential differences are that it's public, and that they're more aggressive with enforcement of the agreement of what's uploaded
21:44:53<@OrIdow6>Instead of just assuming it will work out statistically
21:45:04<@OrIdow6>Like, an analog to the Google Education thing (as I understand it) would be, storage company offers free storage/units to schools. Then companies start registering themselves as schools to store their junk there. And random people manage to get student ID cards and use those to store a bunch of porn magazines and tapes of themselves playing video games.
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21:49:04<@OrIdow6>Archive.org is a library that's super generous in taking donations, and in addition to properly published books they'll take peoples' diaries, now-rare consumer products from the 50s, dirt from historically significant places, etc.
21:58:53<@OrIdow6>It's possible I just haven't understood what you're all arguing, but at least to me these things are clearer in such terms
22:01:28<systwi_>That's a good point, OrIdow6 (and I also agree in that I too, probably, don't fully understand what the discussion is entirely about, heh).
22:03:11<@JAA>Porn, I think? After all, the internet is for porn...
22:04:59<systwi_>Why you think the net was born?
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23:12:42<Frogging101>Basically my position is that it's irrational to blame users for misusing something when no rules or guidelines are provided on what kind of usage is acceptable
23:15:38<Frogging101>The Google education case is much more clear cut, I will grant you
23:16:23<Frogging101>Though I would still argue it would be preventable with sanity checks without impacting the intended users
23:16:53<Frogging101>And if it did impact legitimate users they could have limits lifted on a case by case basis
23:17:04<Frogging101>This is pretty simple stuff, all things considered.
23:21:35<Frogging101>If the provision of the service requires that the large majority of users can't use more than X resources... Then set a threshold above which additional scrutiny is needed, and enforce it.
23:23:11<Frogging101>Don't just let any account suck up petabytes of space with absolutely no human oversight
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23:23:33<Frogging101>Then again, having sufficient human oversight is *not* a strength of Google :P
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