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05:27:48<pabs>https://notebook.wesleyac.com/how-websites-die/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31891780
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05:35:57<Ryz>Oof, a spicy non-standard web code response of 479 being http://blog.internetgovernance.org/blog/_archives/2007/8/23/3178807.html
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09:22:14<systwi>What's not to love about a proprietary OS (macOS Catalina) that freezes for 22 minutes, kernel panics, loses the stuff you had open, and tops it all off with a bug reporter that, itself, hangs when you try to submit a report?
09:23:01<systwi>It's not my computer, so I can't wipe it myself, but ooooooohhh it sure is tempting.
09:35:53<Doranwen>my sympathies, Macs drive me bonkers (so glad I was able to switch my grandpa to Linux to match the rest of us so we don't have to deal with it anymore)
09:39:26<systwi>Thank you. It's tough in my family because my parents and siblings all use iOS devices, their banking software is macOS only, there are numerous disks around the house that use macOS filesystems, I could go on.
09:39:38<systwi>"Drive me bonkers" is a perfect way of describing this.
09:40:41<systwi>I say it's better than Windows/stock Android, at least from a telemetry standpoint, but jeesh, it all feels soooo rushed and unstable.
09:43:06<systwi>I'm the only FLOSS OS user I personally know, so it's, heh, for a lack of a better term...lonely?
09:44:36<systwi>Not the right word, but something along those lines I guess.
09:44:45<systwi>I suggested to my dad that he try out a Linux distro and he said something like, "Linux? I'd have to use different software, right?"
09:45:06<systwi>Umm, heh, well, kind of, yeah.
09:45:58<systwi>I don't think he uses any FLOSS software. Maybe VLC if a video won't play in QuickTime Player.
09:48:15<systwi>Oh, maybe "pioneering" instead of "lonely." I guess?
09:59:51<@OrIdow6>Unpopular opinion but I don't really fault non-technical people for not using Linux
10:01:34<systwi>I get it, Linux-based OSes have typically been written for power users by power users and are seldom market toward average users. They also, primarily in the average user-sphere, have little to no promotional marketing behind them.
10:02:07<systwi>It is certainly a difficult situation. :-S
10:02:51<@OrIdow6>I do wonder what the desktop will look like in 20 years
10:03:10<@OrIdow6>From what I've seen of people using Ipads those are moving closer to being desktop-like OSs
10:03:32<@OrIdow6>What seems to amount to a tiling window manager, files shared between applications, etc.
10:03:38<@OrIdow6>*having
10:05:54<@OrIdow6>To some extent it does feel like we kind of swung around a pole stuck somewhere around 2008
10:07:23<@OrIdow6>"Computers" that people identify as such are receding towards the technically/"nerd"-inclined, gamers, and business users; IRC is really only used by the first group
10:08:50<@OrIdow6>Though https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2021/acs/acs-49.html speaks against me on the first point
10:11:05<systwi>I'm afraid everything will be "universal" in the sense that desktop UIs will be very touch-focused; oversized menu options and buttons, phat title bars, everything so overly-simplified the colors all blend into each other. Modern macOS versions are already pushing this, making your app stand out amongst the other if it doesn't look like a rounded-square cake w/ fondant.
10:11:10<systwi>Checking your URL.
10:12:23<systwi>I agree about the IRC thing. The gamer-folk briefly have gotten their feet wet with Dickrod and don't realize it's a proprietary mix of preexisting ideas. Maybe I'm just rant-rambling here.
10:12:26<systwi>*Discord
10:20:31<systwi>I don't know, to me, your average cell phone doesn't have the same calibre of power a desktop -- with a physical keyboard (and sure, a mouse too) -- has.
10:21:43<systwi>Although, as seen with recent data, your average youth doesn't seem to be bothered by this, presumably because they've grown up this way.
10:22:05systwi is going off on yet another tangent.
10:33:01<@OrIdow6>Yes, stuff made for phones/touchscreens is annoying on desktop
10:35:38<@OrIdow6>I don't really fault people for using Discord even though it's proprietary
10:36:37<@OrIdow6>To people who think that Javascript is the same thing as Java, the only difference between open source and proprietary is that open source gives verbose error messages and tracks you less
10:37:08<systwi>It seems like that's been the design choice for quite some time; to make the desktop feel like it should be a touchscreen experience.
10:37:58<@OrIdow6>(And less-tracking is like less-microplastics to the person that doesn't care about either)
10:39:04<systwi>Don't get me wrong, it's not like I look down upon those that use Discord, I just find it too repelling to use myself.
10:40:09<@OrIdow6>My assumption is that they're trying to make those sites/programs responsive/convergent/whatever the catchall term is
10:40:13<systwi>And I oftentimes think about what shenanigans are going on in the background when someone is talking on Discord, sending suggestive material, etc.
10:40:54<@OrIdow6>Fair
10:41:23<@OrIdow6>I did talk to someone recently who got sucked into (the best guess is) the Discord antispam complex
10:41:40<systwi>"antispam?"
10:41:48<systwi>*antispam complex
10:42:02<@OrIdow6>Metaphor that sounded great at 3 AM
10:42:22<@OrIdow6>I imagine them being blown around in a series of tubes or vents like in a cartoon
10:43:06<systwi>Ahh, gotcha.
10:43:15<systwi>Hehe, the Internet is a series of tubes!
10:43:16<@OrIdow6>Shadowbans that may have been technical problems, explicit bans that didn't actually happen, or maybe actually did happen
10:43:28<@OrIdow6>Etc.
10:43:36<@OrIdow6>yeah, I didn't even think of that
10:44:36<systwi>That's another thing straight from the depths of hell, shadowbans. Let's block you from view of others without letting you know about it, or telling you what you did wrong.
10:45:13<systwi>I'm sorry I'm complaining so much, it's late and I'm still a little miffed about my proprietary software woes.
10:46:27<systwi>:-/
10:53:44<@OrIdow6>Doesn't come across as a rant to me
10:53:59@OrIdow6 is off for tonight
10:54:58<systwi>Okay, heh, thanks for the input.
10:55:06<systwi>Me too, have a good one buddy.
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14:20:06<TheTechRobo><systwi> What's the website? If you don't mind me asking.
14:20:07<TheTechRobo>Geometry Dash
14:20:38<TheTechRobo>Currently (and slowly) working on grab scripts for it because the developer has removed unplayed levels int he past. Also, small levels are auto-deleted
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14:23:16<TheTechRobo><systwi> Although, as seen with recent data, your average youth doesn't seem to be bothered by this, presumably because they've grown up this way.
14:23:54<TheTechRobo>As a youth, I can confirm that most of my friends say things like "...so?" when I complain that Google tracks people, etc
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15:41:56<TheTechRobo>Apparently Jason Scott uses Discord. https://twitter.com/textfiles/status/1542531308760473600
15:48:36<Doranwen>oh yes, there's an IA Discord server (I lurk on it)
15:50:33<TheTechRobo>Doranwen: really?
15:53:22<Doranwen>TheTechRobo: yes, really! he chats on there quite regularly
15:54:18<TheTechRobo>Doranwen: is there a public invite? (both to join and to archive)
15:54:36<Doranwen>if there isn't already, I can generate one - I'm not sure where I ran across mine
15:54:39<Doranwen>one sec…
15:54:56<Doranwen>https://discord.gg/Ze6s2p5cgW
15:56:27<Doranwen>TheTechRobo: have fun there :)
15:57:18<TheTechRobo>Doranwen: thanks!
15:57:24<Doranwen>np :)
15:58:51<Doranwen>I'd probably look at it more but I've been pretty focused on the organizational phase of Yahoo Groups, so I spend more of my time on the two related servers for that, and in a couple fandom-related servers
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20:07:24<systwi>TheTechRobo: I'm in the same generation as well, and yeah, I can confirm here as well that, sadly, very few people care about their privacy.
20:07:40<systwi>They seem to care more about convenience, etc.
20:08:32<systwi>I think it's the worst with gamers. Most don't seem to mind granting shady anti-cheat software full reign over their computers.
20:09:26<@JAA>On a related note, tech literacy peaked for people who are now in their 30s or so.
20:09:50<TheTechRobo>That sounds about right
20:10:05<systwi>90s Internet boom, yeah.
20:10:41<systwi>People older were more hobbyists.
20:11:00<systwi>that had a reason to buy a TRS-80, for example.
20:11:03<@JAA>Yep, people who were kids and young teens in the 90s and 2000s. They still had to and were able to mess with shit to get things running rather than getting a streamlined convenient restrictive environment.
20:11:55<systwi>"Streamlined convenient restrictive environment," yeah, that's it entirely.
20:12:11<systwi>(not sarcasm by the way)
20:12:54@JAA now playing: Metallica - Sad But True
20:18:21<systwi>That 'boiling the frog' metaphor is so true wrt draconian DRM, telemetry, software/webpage bloat, and, to a lesser extent I suppose, oversimplification of features/assuming you know what's best for the end user.
20:19:17<systwi>Lesser as in, a lot of people like things this way, whereas I doubt if people were more aware of what things like DRM are they wouldn't like it.
20:24:19<spirit>I put on my robe and wizard hat.
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21:24:59<@JAA>thuban: You're the first one to get that reference, by the way. (Or at least the first to mention it, anyway.) :-)
21:26:07<thuban>i actually didn't get it! i just googled it
21:26:37<thuban>it's very similar to a richard thompson line, but distinct, so i wondered 'is that also a song lyric?' and it was
21:27:14<thuban>don't believe i've ever heard this one before, so i'm listening now...
21:27:15<@JAA>Ah, booo :-P
21:33:17<systwi>Which line/reference is it? :o
21:33:39<systwi>I probably already don't know if I have to ask.
21:33:59<@JAA>I could tell you, but where's the fun in that? :-)
21:35:32<systwi>Is it on #archiveteam-bs?
21:39:58<thuban>JAA: you might like some of thrice's stuff, especially _the alchemy index_ vol ii
21:42:39<@JAA>thuban: Thanks, will put it on my list. :-)
21:44:50<thuban>you're welcome!
21:45:47<systwi>AFAIK "What are x? Who needs those anyway?" isn't a lyric in a Linkin Park song, but hehehe, I have more important things to do than sift through IRC logs looking for a reference I'll gloss over. :-/
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