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| 01:46:21 | <Frogging101> | JAA: fwiw, I actually do think western institutions and services shouldn't be censoring russian media. It just gives the conspiracy theorists ammunition "look, see, they don't want you to know!" |
| 01:50:32 | <Frogging101> | In the same vein, I think isolating the Russian people from western media might be counterproductive. It leaves them with only their (maliciously unreliable) state broadcasters to get info from. |
| 01:53:42 | <@JAA> | Frogging101: Oh, I agree, I just hate that people are always screaming 'freedom of speeeeeech!!!' in these contexts. |
| 01:55:14 | <Frogging101> | indeed |
| 01:57:39 | <Frogging101> | It's overused, but it's not entirely incorrect here. If the free societies of the world censor ussian media, it's not really much better than Russia censoring everyone else. |
| 01:57:43 | <Frogging101> | Russian media* |
| 01:58:36 | <Frogging101> | I'd like to think that's what they were getting at with "freedom of speech" |
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| 02:12:07 | <@JAA> | Freedom of speech has a very specific meaning though, namely protection from prosecution by the state/government for what someone says (or otherwise expresses). |
| 02:15:06 | <Frogging101> | Well, not exactly. There's freedom of speech in that sense, but there's also just the principle itself, separate from the constitutional guarantee |
| 02:18:57 | <thuban> | agreed |
| 02:23:59 | <nimaje> | what do you mean with "the principle itself"? you are allowed to state your opinions, but about nobody has to give you a platform for that or has to listen to you |
| 02:27:25 | <nirv> | Frogging101, I've talked to conspiracy theorists and I'm not exaggerating, it all boils down to them not knowing anything. they just suck at researching and understanding things |
| 02:27:56 | <nirv> | the way I get them to understand things is by getting them in voice chat and inflecting wildly while speaking condescendingly to them. it's just the way they are |
| 02:29:24 | <nirv> | I talked to a moon landing denier recently and I asked him if he's seen the original resolution apollo 11 70mm hasselblad Image Catalog. of course they haven't. so I proceed to show them and blow their mind. they realize how impossible it'd be to photoshop (way back then) every cloud on earth as seen from the moon |
| 02:30:10 | <@arkiver> | isn't it more about a general distrust in authority? |
| 02:30:19 | <@OrIdow6> | "the principle itself" meaning, I assume, the idea that it should be possible for anyone to reach other people and contribute to the political discussion |
| 02:31:17 | <nirv> | I spoke with some fauci hater recently too in voice and some of it was "distrust in authority" but he was such a tard he kept giving credence to media. he kept talking about the "monopoly amazon has" and "social media" and I said look you stupid asshole, you don't HAVE to go to amazon. yeah! HI! |
| 02:31:48 | <nirv> | (geezus) under my breath. that shut him up. he realized he was trog'd out |
| 02:32:16 | <nirv> | claimed to have a degree in IT. Couldn't answer basic TCP/IP/networking questions I had for him. I mean real basic. |
| 02:33:46 | <nirv> | sometimes I get overwhelmed by conspiracy theory stupidity that I just tell them to come to my youtube stream and put on the first chapter of Carl Sagan's Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark audiobook. the original cassette tape one |
| 02:33:56 | <nirv> | best book I ever read. |
| 02:34:39 | <@arkiver> | why would they trust you |
| 02:34:43 | <thuban> | nimaje: what OrIdow6 said--the ideas and values (that society benefits from a robust and tolerant exchange of ideas / that censorship lends itself to unjust ends) that motivate 1a and other legal guarantees, where they exist, in the first place |
| 02:34:48 | <nirv> | next time you see a conspiracy theorist though, ask them to hop in voice chat (skype, mumble, teamspeak, discord etc) and watch them run screaming |
| 02:35:30 | <nirv> | arkiver, I know, right? It's so weird how I could be a government spy or something and if I get them in voice, it's a matter of seconds before they know I'm as pure as the driven snow |
| 02:36:45 | <nirv> | I guess I don't have that Dick Tracy dialect or whatever you call it. |
| 02:37:52 | <@arkiver> | it's probably not reasoning, facts, or logics that does it but emotion |
| 02:37:57 | <@arkiver> | is what i found |
| 02:38:11 | <@arkiver> | you are emotionally talking, which gets them convinced |
| 02:38:20 | <nirv> | yup. i wish facts alone could change minds, but it's not enough. sometimes you gotta insult them, make a joke. anything in the belt. it's weird |
| 02:41:49 | <nirv> | in the 90s and 2000s their excuses could fly. "I don't have a mic" "you're going to ddos me" "you're going to hack me" etc. but in 2022 there's no more excuse. discord + cell phone. anonymous and safe. the odd thing is it seems to be even more difficult to get people to use voip, especially with someone who doesn't agree with them |
| 02:42:17 | <nirv> | well, anonymous as far as it goes. client/server - I can't get their IP. |
| 02:42:21 | <@JAA> | Yes, the underlying principle is important, but forcing someone (e.g. a social network company) to give you a platform for your speech is not a good approach to that. I don't know what *is*/where that boundary should be set though. |
| 02:43:17 | <nirv> | i don't like being censored but it really is their freedom to ban people. those who feel censored do have many options such as ciphering their text with rot13 |
| 02:43:34 | <nirv> | or uploading a picture with the text they want to speak so the auto filters don't catch it as easily. |
| 02:43:49 | <nirv> | or even make a youtube video. you'd be surprised how much you can get away with just in a youtube video |
| 02:46:48 | <@OrIdow6> | I'm not in favor of compelling Facebook etc as-is but if it got its way and replaced the rest of the Internet and took over work etc. I think I would be |
| 02:47:22 | <@OrIdow6> | Part of it is what people actually use |
| 02:48:08 | <@OrIdow6> | Back in the 80s, when (to my understanding) AT&T was a quasi-governmental organization that handled nearly all telephone traffic in the US, I would have been in favor of compelling it |
| 02:48:23 | <Frogging101> | The freedom of a private platform to do what they want gets a little blurred when it becomes something of a monopoly |
| 02:48:32 | <Frogging101> | That's a debate that's been had a thousand times over though |
| 02:48:42 | <nirv> | I actually hope they keep pushing their censorship. misinformation=ban? Great. No more people saying that the SNES version of Street Fighter II is arcade perfect. |
| 02:48:49 | <nirv> | I'm kidding. sorta |
| 02:49:38 | <Frogging101> | like, yeah, facebook and twitter are not the government, but they are nearly as ubiquitous |
| 02:49:50 | <nirv> | that's because humans have terrible taste |
| 02:50:11 | <nirv> | tiktok and instagram are two of the worst websites I've ever seen in my life. Right. Stop disabling my right click save image context menu you GARBAGE websites. |
| 02:50:54 | <@OrIdow6> | They're as ubiquitous but I don't think they have as much of an ability to restrict, at least as I understand they're applying restrictions now |
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| 02:51:11 | <thuban> | JAA: sure--but once you've acknowledged that the underlying principle is relevant and that there is room for reasonable debate over to what extent it applies, i don't think it makes sense to criticize people for using the words "freedom of speech" |
| 02:51:15 | <nicolas17> | I made it this long without an instagram account and without using tiktok (well I downloaded the app to do some reverse-engineering once) and I intend to keep it that way |
| 02:51:22 | <thuban> | of course, if you've developed a reflexive aversion to the phrase because it's invoked mostly by assholes (cf ssc's "three principled civil libertarians and seven zillion witches"), that's understandable ;) |
| 02:51:54 | <nicolas17> | I also lost access to my facebook account due to a bug on their end and I don't care enough to try recovering it |
| 02:52:02 | <nirv> | I'm trying to convince humans to stop recording and uploading vertical videos but it's a lost cause. they're dumb. |
| 02:52:16 | <@OrIdow6> | You can still set up your own website if you have some opinion Facebook doesn't like, and though it might not go as viral, if someone wants to spread it at the individual level they can |
| 02:52:19 | <nirv> | video quality is supposed to get BETTER over time - not worse. Tired of these SegaCD FMV looking videos |
| 02:52:44 | <thuban> | but i like to think of assholes as sentinel species (right after the Four Horsemen). |
| 02:52:45 | <nicolas17> | https://twitter.com/zhuowei/status/1499172174409650185 |
| 02:53:02 | <nirv> | haha |
| 02:53:12 | <Frogging101> | I don't like when legitimate concepts and terms get co-opted by assholes and nobody cares to listen to them anymore |
| 02:53:17 | <Frogging101> | that madly sucks |
| 02:54:57 | <nirv> | I was showing off ubuntu in virtualbox simultaneously with Windows 2000 browsing Microsoft Encarta '98 and I know those cell phone losers watching me were jealous. compooters are so much gooder |
| 02:55:36 | <nicolas17> | ugh I tried to upload a hundred files to IA with the command line tool and 1. it didn't preserve the directory structure (my fault), 2. it failed halfway because each file creates a task and I ended up with too many tasks queued |
| 02:55:37 | <nirv> | took tonight from encarta 98. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/197420215363960832/949414391420448849/unknown.png |
| 02:56:24 | <@OrIdow6> | Frogging101: perhaps you were on the other side of that from me, but the example that comes to my mind is "marketplace of ideas" being used to mean people are morally obligated to listen to someone's speech, which is a shame since it's such a nice metaphor |
| 02:56:44 | <nirv> | I got your marketplace of ideas. *honk honk* |
| 02:57:30 | <thuban> | nirv: now i'm having flashbacks to an old geography game for the mac whose name i can't remember... |
| 02:57:48 | <nirv> | mindmaze? |
| 02:58:03 | <nirv> | risk! |
| 02:58:54 | <nicolas17> | hm I think I have two versions of encarta on DVD |
| 02:58:57 | <nicolas17> | I should see if they're on IA |
| 02:59:01 | <nirv> | i uploaded some |
| 02:59:06 | <nirv> | https://archive.org/details/@encartaarchiver |
| 02:59:26 | <nirv> | I love them. I actually like them way more than wikipedia. not joking |
| 02:59:29 | <@JAA> | I can't deny that the idiots have an influence on my perception. But a website deciding they don't want to host $statement is not a violation of either the legal freedom of speech or the general principle. |
| 02:59:37 | <nicolas17> | I also have an ancient version of Grolier |
| 03:00:31 | <nirv> | i never used grolier but I recently grabbed some of the isos. and compton's encyclopedia to help a girl on youtube find a sample chinese musicial instrument song. she was in tears when she heard it again decades later. |
| 03:00:42 | <@JAA> | And yeah, in the recent decades, being able to express yourself on the internet (via your own website etc.) is crucial. I'm not exactly happy with how the internet infrastructure works currently in that respect. |
| 03:00:58 | <nicolas17> | oh I think I have compton too |
| 03:01:24 | <nirv> | JAA, that's why I keep telling people voice chat is the answer. there is no automatic audio censorship that I know of as of right now. |
| 03:01:37 | <@JAA> | Meh |
| 03:01:49 | <nicolas17> | https://catalogd.archive.org/history/kde-git-respositories at this rate this queue isn't gonna drain before I go to bed |
| 03:02:06 | <@JAA> | That just shifts the problem, and speech recognition has been progressing very quickly. |
| 03:02:08 | <nicolas17> | my attempts at cleaning up the mess moving files to directories created more tasks, I thought "I give up, I'll delete all files and re-upload them" but deleting creates more per-file tasks, so now I'll leave it alone until it empties |
| 03:02:45 | <nirv> | well let's put it this way. in the last 10 years I've been banned about 700 times from reddit. 0 times from youtube. |
| 03:03:39 | <Frogging101> | JAA: So it would not be a violation of freedom of speech for the Russians to censor people saying the invasion is an invasion? |
| 03:03:40 | <nirv> | almost every popular website these days is extremely locked down. |
| 03:04:01 | <Frogging101> | I think it's too broad to say that "censoring a statement — any statement — is not against the idea freedom of speech" |
| 03:04:08 | <dvd> | lol i got pinged by mistake |
| 03:04:28 | <Frogging101> | Though maybe that's not what you meant |
| 03:04:37 | <nicolas17> | dvd: I love when that happens |
| 03:04:52 | <Frogging101> | I've seen someone use the nickname 'i'. I bet that gets pinged constantly. |
| 03:04:55 | <nicolas17> | in some debian channel: |
| 03:04:57 | <nicolas17> | <someone> who would be legally liable if that happens? |
| 03:05:03 | <nicolas17> | <liable> you rang? :) |
| 03:06:04 | <@JAA> | Frogging101: Of course it would. Where did I imply it wouldn't? |
| 03:06:19 | <nirv> | a decent way around text-based censorship: www.rot13.com |
| 03:06:19 | <nirv> | V ungr lbh nyy! |
| 03:06:30 | <Frogging101> | JAA: "a website deciding they don't want to host $statement is not a violation of either the legal freedom of speech or the general principle." |
| 03:06:36 | <nirv> | it's worked many times for me in youtube comments. youtube has a lot of auto deletion going on. |
| 03:06:44 | <nirv> | call someone a buttmunch? comment auto deleted in 25 seconds |
| 03:06:48 | <Frogging101> | I think that's only circumstantially valid, if at all |
| 03:07:15 | <@OrIdow6> | Whether it is wrong to censor something need not be purely a function of the information content of the statement itself |
| 03:08:00 | <@JAA> | A website operated by a private entity*, to clarify. Government action that limits speech beyond the reasonable limits is the definition of violating freedom of expression. :-) |
| 03:09:21 | <Frogging101> | The morality argument can still apply to private entities |
| 03:09:42 | <Frogging101> | It's not enforceable, but one can still say it's wrong of them to do it |
| 03:10:06 | <Frogging101> | And in the case of *massive* and ubiquitous platforms, there is a debate about whether they should be allowed to at all |
| 03:10:12 | <nirv> | there is only one website I can think of off the top of my head that has so far ALMOST let me say what I want. dissenter/gab. |
| 03:10:39 | <nirv> | But I don't think people really like free speech. In fact, I think most people hate it. |
| 03:10:53 | <Frogging101> | people like it until someone uses it to say something they don't like |
| 03:11:01 | <nirv> | the websites that allow the most speech mysteriously as the least populated. |
| 03:11:09 | <nirv> | are* |
| 03:11:14 | <@JAA> | See: Truth Social, Parler, Gab, etc. |
| 03:11:25 | <@JAA> | All these 'free speech' platforms are failing in the same way. |
| 03:11:53 | <nirv> | I guarantee you if you got ISIS members on those sites, everyone would be flailing to flush them. |
| 03:12:11 | <nirv> | everyone has a line |
| 03:12:13 | <@JAA> | Part of that has to do with the internet structure. |
| 03:12:15 | <Frogging101> | I closely watched the company that ran AI Dungeon run their service into the ground over people writing """child porn""" with it. This wasn't really a free speech issue, because it concerned private, non-shared writings |
| 03:12:29 | <Frogging101> | And they were, of course, within their rights to police the use of their service |
| 03:12:39 | <Frogging101> | But that doesn't mean it made any sense to do so in the way they did it |
| 03:13:35 | <thuban> | <JAA> And yeah, in the recent decades, being able to express yourself on the internet (via your own website etc.) is crucial. I'm not exactly happy with how the internet infrastructure works currently in that respect. |
| 03:13:43 | <thuban> | very true--cf https://madattheinternet.com/2021/07/08/where-the-sidewalk-ends-the-death-of-the-internet/ |
| 03:13:56 | <nirv> | I've noticed that those who are sensitive to vulgarity or pejoratives aren't as indignant when you use them privately, 1 on 1. I've done it several times to people in private arguments with random people in voice. |
| 03:15:13 | <Frogging101> | The infrastructure is actually fine, you can host a website somewhere and write whatever the hell you want on it. The problem is nobody will look at it because they're all on Facebook |
| 03:15:57 | <nirv> | A radio show from the 90s/2000s called The Phil Hendrie Show was a very interesting experiment. It was broadcast over FCC-regulated terrestrial airwaves, yet he got away with the N word, FAG, DYKE, BULLDYKE etc. All because he said them through a character voice instead of himself. |
| 03:16:21 | <nirv> | Never fined once by the FCC. |
| 03:16:24 | <thuban> | Frogging101: you might be surprised if you read that essay |
| 03:16:26 | <@JAA> | Well, until your domain gets blocked because some private company is in control of .com, your ISP drops hosting you due to incoming attacks, etc. |
| 03:16:36 | <Frogging101> | hmm |
| 03:16:37 | <thuban> | haha, exactly |
| 03:16:38 | <Frogging101> | true |
| 03:16:45 | <Frogging101> | thuban: it sounds too depressing to read :( |
| 03:17:13 | <nirv> | The internet is not nor has it ever been FCC regulated. The problem is everyone is trying to turn it into television. I'm starting to hear bleeps in police bodycams now. |
| 03:19:57 | <nirv> | This russian/ukraine war has been particularly depressing for me. Almost every video that has come out of it has been WATERMARK'D. |
| 03:20:23 | <Frogging101> | are watermarks bad? |
| 03:20:33 | <nirv> | Three guesses and the first two don't count. |
| 03:20:59 | <@JAA> | They are when they obscure the content. |
| 03:21:14 | <nirv> | The JFK assassination video doesn't even have a watermark, and I've read that is one of the most viewed videos ever. |
| 03:21:42 | <@JAA> | Those videos with the moving almost opaque text in the middle of the screen for example are pretty annoying. |
| 03:21:56 | <nirv> | People just crapping on the spirit of the internet. |
| 03:22:24 | <@JAA> | I'm sure the fact that it doesn't have a watermark has a lot to do with it having been viewed many times... |
| 03:22:47 | <nirv> | When multimedia became more and more possible, the first thing we did was YANK commercials out of TV shows. We want to see pure, unmolested media. |
| 03:24:17 | <nirv> | JAA, I'm just saying if every eyeball got to see JFK unmolested, why are you sticking your lame watermark into our grills, permanently ruining it like that? |
| 03:25:09 | <nirv> | I want to see backlash on watermarks. "Unwatchable" "Does anyone have the heterosexual version of this video?" etc |
| 03:28:42 | <thuban> | there are multiple wikipedia articles about controversial (gory) media which not only don't host their subjects but don't _link_ to them |
| 03:29:10 | <thuban> | if you go into the history and talk pages you can find pearl-clutching edit wars, with the winners arguing 'well they're readily available on google!' |
| 03:29:29 | <@JAA> | ... and then LiveLeak went down. |
| 03:29:31 | <thuban> | guess whether this is true ten or twenty years later? :) |
| 03:31:34 | <nicolas17> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Muhammad |
| 03:31:56 | <nicolas17> | pages upon pages of people complaining that imagery of the phophet is illegal under islamic law |
| 03:36:51 | <thuban> | mainstream media suppresses 'em, non-mainstream media succumbs to link rot. i eventually did find them by scratching around in ddg and the wbm (internet archive forever!) but come on, it's the _subject of the article!_ |
| 03:38:37 | <nicolas17> | sending one rename every 15 seconds seems to be keeping the task queue size stable |
| 03:47:51 | <nirv> | this is the most uplifting and optimistic song ever created by any human. https://youtu.be/MDaio2hf1fE |
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| 04:52:39 | <nicolas17> | oh my god I typoed the item identifier and only now noticed |
| 04:52:54 | <thuban> | oof |
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| 11:08:42 | <systwi> | Could someone please mirror this PDF to somewhere like https://transfer.sh/ and send me the link? https://web.archive.org/web/20141110102048/http://www.foi.se/ReportFiles/foir_3892.pdf |
| 11:09:04 | <systwi> | I wanted to download that PDF from WBM but for some reason every browser I try loading it in, it just doesn't load completely. |
| 11:31:47 | | qwertyasdfuiopghjkl joins |
| 11:36:30 | <Sanqui> | systwi: wget is giving me an ETA of 30 minutes |
| 11:37:04 | <Sanqui> | the file is 67 MB |
| 11:37:16 | <Sanqui> | if it succeeds and I remember I'll send you a link |
| 12:00:40 | <systwi> | Thanks Sanqui. I've tried using wget with WBM pages (like this) and I've always gotten a broken HTML page instead. |
| 12:01:32 | <Sanqui> | systwi: what you want to do is to add "id_" directly after the date in the URL, that should yield you the raw file. |
| 12:01:37 | <Sanqui> | However, I think maybe IA doesn't have the whole thing. I'm getting an interruption at 31.45M, or about 46%. |
| 12:03:22 | <appledash> | web.archive.org has been incredibly unreliable for me this past little while |
| 12:03:31 | <appledash> | Insanely slow download speeds and random timeouts and truncations like that |
| 12:03:51 | <systwi> | Cool, I'll have to remember "id_" for future things as well. Helpful! |
| 12:04:06 | <systwi> | https://web.archive.org/web/20141110102048_id/http://www.foi.se/ReportFiles/foir_3892.pdf |
| 12:04:10 | <systwi> | Like that? |
| 12:07:30 | <Sanqui> | It's progressing again |
| 12:07:43 | <Sanqui> | systwi: no, like https://web.archive.org/web/20141110102048id_/http://www.foi.se/ReportFiles/foir_3892.pdf |
| 12:07:57 | <Sanqui> | anyway, my download is resuming |
| 12:07:59 | <Sanqui> | I'm at 53% now. |
| 12:08:03 | <Sanqui> | eta 88 minutes though :P |
| 12:08:29 | <systwi> | I see. It looks strange that way, but okay. |
| 12:08:34 | <systwi> | Ahh |
| 12:08:37 | <Sanqui> | aye |
| 12:08:43 | <systwi> | web.archive.org doesn |
| 12:08:54 | <systwi> | web.archive.org doesn't even load for me anymore. |
| 12:09:03 | <systwi> | I keep getting timeouts. |
| 12:09:22 | <systwi> | I don't know why. I've had problems loading IA webpages for a few years now. |
| 12:09:32 | <systwi> | WBM especially. |
| 12:09:51 | <systwi> | Thank you for helping me with this. |
| 12:11:22 | <systwi> | Oh, Sanqui, now I remember your name. You were the one that said you liked DMG development, right? |
| 12:11:33 | <systwi> | Somewhere I read that. |
| 12:11:36 | <systwi> | I think. |
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| 12:40:58 | <Sanqui> | systwi: my download finished, I'll pm you a link |
| 12:41:29 | <Sanqui> | and yeah I do Game Boy stuff |
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| 12:51:52 | <@rewby> | nirv: Geocities download has finished, I've engaged the holy unzip |
| 12:53:28 | <systwi> | Thank you. :) |
| 12:53:30 | <@rewby> | My choice of software is: Debian 11, p7zip-full, find . -type f -iname "*.7z.001" -exec 7z x -o/geocities/ {} \; |
| 12:53:39 | <systwi> | Nice, I love the Game Boy line. |
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| 13:05:44 | <nirv> | rewby, okay taking notes on that |
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| 13:15:56 | <nirv> | I can't even get through the lowercase and uppercase folders |
| 13:15:57 | <nirv> | ERROR: /mnt/linux5tb/geocities.archiveteam.torrent/UPPERCASE/geocities-C-r.7z.001_meta.txt Cannot open the file as archive |
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| 14:45:26 | <nirv> | hmmmm |
| 14:46:13 | <nirv> | so even though I got a couple "errors" in the terminal window while extracting, the log file for the first extraction of /UPPERCASE seems to be successful. |
| 14:46:14 | <nirv> | Archives: 621 OK archives: 619 Can't open as archive: 2 Folders: 10348 Files: 348284 Size: 500707654094 Compressed: 379962796727 |
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| 15:16:13 | <@rewby> | nirv: You only extract the .7z.001 files, the rest gets picked up automatically. And the _meta.txt is not an archive, that's a txt file. |
| 15:17:22 | <@rewby> | Hence my find command has the -iname "*.7z.001" arguments |
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| 15:26:16 | <nirv> | "You only extract the .7z.001 files" |
| 15:26:22 | <nirv> | there's two sets of archives, is there not? |
| 15:27:47 | <@rewby> | What do you mean? |
| 15:28:40 | <nirv> | I've extracted the uppercase folder so far. it's turned into this right here which I have to extract again, and always leads to problems. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/197420215363960832/949689855183573022/unknown.png |
| 15:28:49 | <nirv> | wait |
| 15:28:53 | <nirv> | I'll just make a quick video |
| 15:35:59 | <nirv> | rewby, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwGd7NizQ3k |
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| 15:44:16 | <nirv> | so your .001 files didn't EXTRACT TO MORE 7Z files? Only mine did? |
| 15:44:42 | <nirv> | uppercase -> extracts to a small geocities folder and a bunch more 7z files. Not yet fully extracted. Not yet ready for viewing the data. |
| 15:45:00 | <nirv> | So I go ahead and extract the second set of 7z files and it's weird crap like I showed in the video. |
| 15:45:11 | <nirv> | How about you just extract once and be done you weird ass archive? I don't get it at all. |
| 15:45:34 | <nirv> | I so far have not found a single person online who has done it successfully or shown how to do it flawlessly. |
| 15:53:13 | <nirv> | this archive is violating everything I know about compression and archiving. |
| 15:53:14 | <nirv> | https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/872443255281844236/949696003215335494/unknown.png |
| 15:53:37 | <nirv> | the red, highlighted files on the left equal 136MB. but extracted on the right, it's 132MB. |
| 15:53:58 | <nirv> | Hi. Extracted files should be larger than the compressed archive, not smaller. |
| 16:01:37 | <nirv> | perhaps you archivers have some method or toolset that the average person doesn't have or know. part of the reason of archiving things is to make them available to everyone |
| 16:02:50 | <nirv> | rewby sounds like he extracted every single file from the torrent in one go. no 7z files left over. I have no idea how you did that if that's what you did. |
| 16:03:21 | <nirv> | I would like to see the size and folder structure of your extracted files |
| 16:04:13 | <@rewby> | It's still running at the moment |
| 16:04:48 | <nirv> | I' |
| 16:05:44 | <@rewby> | But yeah, I ran this command at the root of the torrent directory: |
| 16:05:52 | <nirv> | I don't know if you're interested in CRC checking your downloaded torrent files, but I think they're bad out of the gate. Here's what I used to CRC check them. https://blog.geocities.institute/archives/3209 |
| 16:06:16 | <@rewby> | find . -type f -iname "*.7z.001" -exec 7z x -o/geocities/ {} \; |
| 16:06:21 | <@rewby> | Which extracts the files to /geocities/ |
| 16:06:37 | <@rewby> | The stuff in UPPERCASE produced an extensionless tar file |
| 16:06:38 | <nirv> | I suspect at least 15 of your .001 files are going fail. |
| 16:06:39 | <@rewby> | But those extract fine |
| 16:07:01 | <nirv> | extensionless tar file? One tar file? what the |
| 16:07:05 | <nirv> | that's totally different than what I got |
| 16:07:18 | <@rewby> | One tar file per 7z archive |
| 16:07:44 | <@rewby> | But remember, thefiles with numbers as extensions are a single archive |
| 16:07:48 | <@rewby> | Not independent archives |
| 16:08:38 | <@rewby> | Also, I downloaded the whole torrent using transmission-daemon onto this vm |
| 16:08:46 | <@rewby> | So no moving files about via another host or anything |
| 16:08:54 | <nirv> | okay |
| 16:08:56 | <@rewby> | And I had it verify the contents of the files after download |
| 16:09:05 | <@rewby> | A few files were bad and needed a redownload |
| 16:09:10 | <@rewby> | But otherwise it was fine |
| 16:09:17 | <@rewby> | It only had to redo like 34MB |
| 16:09:19 | <nirv> | I think I'm going to delete all my folders and just use your 7z command even though I already know a couple files are not passing CRC |
| 16:09:33 | <nirv> | what did you use to verify the contents? |
| 16:09:42 | <@rewby> | Verify contents? |
| 16:09:48 | <@rewby> | 7z does integrity checks while it unpacks |
| 16:10:12 | <nirv> | so you had to restart the entire extraction again after replacing those bad files, right? |
| 16:10:24 | <@rewby> | No? I've not had any bad files |
| 16:10:30 | <@rewby> | Like, the torrent daemon itself replaced them |
| 16:10:30 | <nirv> | <@rewby> A few files were bad and needed a redownload |
| 16:10:38 | <@rewby> | There's a button for "verify data" |
| 16:10:50 | <@rewby> | I clicked that and waited for the torrent client to do the work |
| 16:11:14 | <@rewby> | This is the "patched" torrent, so ofc the files dont' match up their checksums against the IA's version |
| 16:12:01 | <@rewby> | But transmission (the torrent client) checked it against the hashes in the torrent itself |
| 16:12:07 | <@rewby> | And fixed the issues there |
| 16:12:19 | <@rewby> | And 7z is extracting the files fine so far |
| 16:12:26 | <@rewby> | It's not done yet, my disks aren't that fast |
| 16:13:01 | <nirv> | I don't trust torrents. it said I was at 100% before and I had problems extracting it - that was after verifying in deluge. |
| 16:13:28 | <nirv> | so now I can't trust the CRC script I got from somewhere else. great. |
| 16:13:30 | <@rewby> | My /geocities directory looks like this so far: https://termbin.com/zvrmu |
| 16:13:40 | <@rewby> | Each of those files is a tar file |
| 16:14:12 | <@rewby> | Which extract fine using tar xf |
| 16:14:29 | <nirv> | so one geocities folder and a bunch of tar files |
| 16:14:37 | <nirv> | okay |
| 16:14:54 | <@rewby> | Yup |
| 16:15:03 | <@rewby> | My steps are literally: |
| 16:15:08 | <@rewby> | Setup debian 11 vm. |
| 16:15:12 | <@rewby> | Install transmission-daemon |
| 16:15:17 | <@rewby> | Queue torrent with magnet link |
| 16:15:21 | <@rewby> | Wait for torrent to download |
| 16:15:27 | <@rewby> | Click verify in the transmission UI |
| 16:15:31 | <@rewby> | Wait for verify to finish |
| 16:15:35 | <@rewby> | Wait for redownloads to happen |
| 16:15:48 | <@rewby> | mkdir /geocities |
| 16:15:55 | <nirv> | well, I just hit verify again in deluge and it looks like it's going to take about 6 hours JUST TO VERIFY |
| 16:16:00 | <nirv> | so this has been really, really fun |
| 16:16:06 | <nirv> | Looks like ubuntu and deluge BLOW |
| 16:16:26 | <@rewby> | run the find + 7z command I pasted earlier from /var/lib/transmission-daemon/downloads/geocities.archiveteam.torrent |
| 16:16:32 | <nirv> | does linux not fucking use multi cpus or something? I've got 10 cpus on it in virtualbox and it's slow as fuck |
| 16:16:42 | <@rewby> | 7zip does not no |
| 16:16:53 | <nirv> | well apparently 7zz alpha does |
| 16:16:58 | <nirv> | 21.60 ver or whatever |
| 16:17:01 | <nirv> | native linux support |
| 16:17:14 | <@rewby> | Yeah, but p7zip is my defacto standard for 7z extraction |
| 16:17:23 | <@rewby> | And it's the one that always just works for me |
| 16:17:56 | <nirv> | okay well I'm just going to try your command right now from the geocities.archiveteam.torrent folder then. screw it. |
| 16:18:16 | <nirv> | I don't know where in the hell you got that command but it certainly isn't going to be known by your average computer user |
| 16:18:17 | <@rewby> | I don't know if any of your source files were overwritten during your previous attempts |
| 16:18:35 | <nirv> | yeah they probably were. I probably have to start entirely over again |
| 16:18:43 | <nirv> | and maybe I should with debian/transmission |
| 16:18:47 | <nirv> | sounds more reliable |
| 16:19:04 | <@rewby> | The 7zip command is based on https://askubuntu.com/a/863113 |
| 16:19:19 | <@rewby> | And I wrapped it in a find command because I can't be arsed listing all the .7z.001 files by hand |
| 16:19:31 | <@rewby> | I just made that command up on the spot tbh |
| 16:19:48 | <nirv> | yeah you're used to this stuff. guys like me aren't. I assume most aren't. |
| 16:19:51 | <@rewby> | I do enough work in the linux shell that I know how to use find in various ways |
| 16:19:59 | <nirv> | I really think this shit should be more easily accessible to the average tard like me |
| 16:20:11 | <@rewby> | That's why people host geocities mirrors |
| 16:20:19 | <nirv> | otherwise it's not really preserved if it takes EINSTEIN TO CALCULATE COMMANDS TO EXTRACT! |
| 16:20:20 | <nirv> | :P |
| 16:20:21 | <@rewby> | Because the "average tard" just wants to view them |
| 16:20:44 | <@rewby> | Also, it's just a tar in a split 7z archive. That's pretty standard stuff for torrents back in the day |
| 16:21:18 | <@rewby> | This torrent's just annoying because it's a metric buttload of split archives |
| 16:21:27 | <nirv> | I've almost never dealt with "tar" files. since my piracy days going back to the mid-late 1990s, they've always been .rar or .zip and we just used winrar |
| 16:21:38 | <@rewby> | It's a linux-ism |
| 16:21:52 | <nirv> | well like I said I'm just starting the fuck over |
| 16:21:56 | <@rewby> | The holy .tar.gz is the defacto standard on linux |
| 16:22:00 | <nirv> | I probably GREASED my files with that CRC script anyway |
| 16:22:18 | <nirv> | only 5% checked so far. it's going to take hours just to CHECK the files |
| 16:22:25 | <@rewby> | And this one's just a 7zip instead of .gz. But either way it's not that unusual |
| 16:22:26 | <nirv> | if I can pull this off |
| 16:22:32 | <nirv> | holy SHIT am I making a video so more tards can do this |
| 16:22:37 | <@rewby> | No if you want bullshit, archiveteam's recent .warc.zst files are madness |
| 16:22:40 | <@rewby> | And undocumented hell |
| 16:22:43 | <nirv> | HAHAHA |
| 16:22:53 | <nirv> | that's some BDSM I couldn't get into |
| 16:23:02 | <@rewby> | We've put the dictionary in the first skippable zstd frame |
| 16:23:10 | <@rewby> | And there's no tooling in existence that handles them |
| 16:23:15 | <nirv> | you're all mad. mad! |
| 16:23:15 | <@rewby> | And no official docs on how this format works |
| 16:23:32 | <@rewby> | Its definition exists between AT's tooling and IA's tooling |
| 16:23:45 | <@rewby> | Both of which are notoriously badly documented |
| 16:23:58 | <nirv> | now I bet there are required downloads in your debian VM that will be required for this besides transmission |
| 16:24:16 | <@rewby> | Uh. transmission-daemon p7zip-full |
| 16:24:25 | <@rewby> | I like tmux to leave the command running even if my ssh session disconnects |
| 16:24:30 | <@rewby> | I use a remote server |
| 16:24:44 | <@rewby> | And this server just has a big hdd pool |
| 16:25:04 | <@rewby> | 12TB usable on a raidz1 pool |
| 16:25:57 | <@rewby> | It's not complicated if you have some basic linux knowledge and can follow a tutorial on how to set up transmission |
| 16:26:27 | <@rewby> | I think I used this tutorial for transmission: https://www.unixmen.com/transmission-daemon-setting-transmission-web-debian/ |
| 16:26:50 | <@rewby> | The default username + password for the webui is transmission and transmission |
| 16:27:31 | <nirv> | ok. any evidence I've ever used linux on this PC is gone. starting over |
| 16:27:53 | <nirv> | I hope virtualbox doesn't have a 2TB dynamic limit. |
| 16:28:23 | | @rewby shrugs |
| 16:28:26 | <@rewby> | I don't use virtualbox |
| 16:28:29 | <@rewby> | I have actual linux servers |
| 16:30:15 | <nirv> | well get you Mr. Vanderbilt. |
| 16:30:31 | <nirv> | I've only ever used in VM |
| 16:36:09 | <nirv> | rewby, you did all that really fast. I've been stuck on this crap for 3+ weeks. |
| 16:36:18 | <nirv> | do you wear a cape by any chance? Geezus |
| 16:36:54 | <@rewby> | The download went fast because that server is on a gigabit link and some peers in Germany were feeding me at 40MB/s |
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| 17:44:18 | <@arkiver> | rewby: who needs docs when it's in your head right :P |
| 17:44:54 | <@rewby> | The people who need to interact with the files afterwards need the docs. |
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| 17:45:17 | <@arkiver> | :P |
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| 18:21:13 | <@JAA> | rewby: There is documentation on .warc.zst, actually. http://iipc.github.io/warc-specifications/specifications/warc-zstd/ |
| 18:21:59 | <@JAA> | There's also ongoing/stalled work to get the skippable frame stuff into zstd proper: https://github.com/facebook/zstd/pull/2349 |
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| 18:48:17 | <@rewby> | Oh neat |
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