| 00:38:06 | <mr_archive> | Here is something very interesting I've recently found out. Some of you might be aware of M3U playlists. It turns out that MOV files can actually act in a similar way. |
| 00:38:20 | <mr_archive> | The problem is for example archive.org does not read these files so even if the reference MOV is archived it's very unlikely that the actual video is archived because most if not all web spiders do not read the file. |
| 00:38:32 | <mr_archive> | Here are some example files if anyone is interested: |
| 00:38:36 | <mr_archive> | https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://stream.qtv.apple.com/qtv/* |
| 00:38:51 | <mr_archive> | mplayer seems capable of reading these files. |
| 00:39:52 | <Wayward> | you mean remotely stored video sources? is it just an .m3u formatted file in disguise with a .mov file extension? |
| 00:40:31 | <Wayward> | or does the .mov file format (.mp4?) have a special remote pinging feature? |
| 00:40:45 | <mr_archive> | I've never got one to play yet. All the URLs seem down. |
| 00:40:56 | <mr_archive> | I think it's just a regular HTTP url. |
| 00:41:03 | <Wayward> | do you have an example |
| 00:41:12 | <Wayward> | oh wait, i misread above |
| 00:41:23 | <mr_archive> | There are tons of examples on the provided link. |
| 00:41:45 | <mr_archive> | Here is a good one that I looked at: |
| 00:41:46 | <Wayward> | my irc client took me directly to apple.com |
| 00:41:48 | <mr_archive> | https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://stream.qtv.apple.com/qtv/bluish/dfa/lcd/daftpunklive_600.mov |
| 00:42:17 | <mr_archive> | It has http://a252.g.akamai.net/5/252/147/4381b78f/1a1a1a006fe54eb32654c539afdd3eae1e8aef1d80ef5c8bf867dd46ab1e4daf1b90f96cd40367cd2e5dc92c90/daftpunklive_600.mov in the file if you run the strings command on it. |
| 00:42:58 | <Somebody2> | This seems more relevant to #archiveteam-bs as it *is* on topic of archiving... |
| 00:43:48 | <mr_archive> | Sorry I wasn't sure which one to use. The banner said "General archiving & offtopic: #archiveteam-ot" so that's why I took it here. |
| 00:44:17 | <Wayward> | mr_archive: this seems to help. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=moov+rmra+rmda&ia=web |
| 00:44:38 | <Somebody2> | ah, makes sense |
| 00:44:59 | <Somebody2> | I suppose it's not exactly about an *archiveteam* project... |
| 00:45:43 | <mr_archive> | You are right though actually. https://wiki.archiveteam.org/index.php/Archiveteam:IRC has a more clear description and it says All general and in-depth archiving-related discussion happens in #archiveteam-bs |
| 00:45:51 | <mr_archive> | General topics not related to computers and/or archiving at all are not welcome even in #archiveteam-bs (try #archiveteam-ot for such topics instead). |
| 00:47:17 | <Wayward> | If it were me, I would choose not to support these reference atoms as it enables unscrupulous actors to spy on who is watching a video file from which IP addresses |
| 00:48:28 | <Wayward> | and, indeed, trick people into thinking they possess an actual local copy of the video file, until it vanishes. |
| 00:48:29 | <mr_archive> | Yes the link you sent is helpful. Reading this: https://wiki.multimedia.cx/index.php?title=QuickTime_container#rmra it seems to match up. |
| 00:48:55 | <mr_archive> | Also you are right about the tracking. I'm sure for the people who post those MOV files that's a feature and not a bug. |
| 00:49:32 | <mr_archive> | For example I've noticed a lot of movie trailers are using it. They could get an estimate of how many people watched the trailer. |
| 00:50:01 | <mr_archive> | However I will mention that it's true of any HTTP link. |
| 00:51:08 | <Wayward> | sure. but if you want to trick some political dissenters into sharing a spiked video file through underground channels of communication, and identify where your political enemies reside... this sort of pinging has been used in countless other forms. |
| 00:51:37 | <Wayward> | Flash was notorious |
| 00:52:15 | <Wayward> | most people think of video files as being inert media objects |
| 00:52:45 | <mr_archive> | OK, now I'm understanding you. Someone clicks the MOV file thinking it's local but it is instead online. |
| 00:53:11 | <Wayward> | aye |
| 00:53:34 | <mr_archive> | I haven't used Quicktime in a long time but I'd imagine it's a seamless expereince such that if you had a fast connection and the video was compressed well you'd probally not even know it happened. |
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| 00:55:34 | <mr_archive> | Now for web archiving I think it's different. I for sure agree with you that implementing this in a media player would be bad or if it's supported it should display a warning before making the HTTP request. |
| 00:55:43 | <Wayward> | At a glance, you might be able to mix a movie-reference in with an actual video, so you can obtain ping statistics on the spread of a video through p2p/bittorrent |
| 00:56:18 | <Wayward> | without raising any red flags based on filesize and offline viewing |
| 00:56:40 | <mr_archive> | Yes, for sure. |
| 00:57:44 | <mr_archive> | Now when archiving a website I still think it might be a good idea to try reading these files if possible. For example what if a news website used it or something like that? |
| 00:57:47 | <Wayward> | one of those Bad Ideas like when Microsoft allowed people to embed VB scripts into video files that execute when the video is played |
| 00:57:58 | <mr_archive> | That's insane. |
| 00:58:29 | <mr_archive> | You can actually do a lot even with the regular VBScript. |
| 00:58:46 | <Wayward> | yeah, i didn't know that quicktime did this. it's definitely good to know for people working on the WBM scrapers |
| 00:59:03 | <Wayward> | supposing they support deep diving for reference urls |
| 00:59:12 | <mr_archive> | WMB? |
| 00:59:20 | <Wayward> | Way Back Machine WBM |
| 00:59:36 | <mr_archive> | Yes, got it. |
| 01:00:38 | <mr_archive> | Yes I was also shocked about this. Speaking of shocking and also bad ideas from Microsoft they made their own video protocol call MMS: |
| 01:00:43 | <mr_archive> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Media_Services |
| 01:01:24 | <mr_archive> | For example I found an ASX file on archive.org. It contained a link that was prefixed with MMS://. |
| 01:01:55 | <mr_archive> | I'm not sure if any web servers are still up using that protcol but I would expect that it might be hard to archive. |
| 01:02:17 | <mr_archive> | I think mplayer actually tried to contact the URL but it was down. |
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| 01:56:10 | <mr_archive> | I worked on this but never finished a project to download YouTube comments. |
| 01:56:23 | <mr_archive> | Wait I was scrolled up when I replied. |
| 01:57:31 | <mr_archive> | I came back to my IRC client but either forgot I scrolled up or accidentally did it somehow. |
| 01:59:55 | <mr_archive> | Now that I've mentioned it however the script is still up. It worked in 2019 but YouTube throttled you too quickly even with random delays. |
| 01:59:58 | <mr_archive> | http://163.172.39.176/youtube_comments_downloader/ |
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| 05:02:24 | <cadence> | mr_archive: "Internally it works like this: By passing disable_polymer=1" this is removed now |
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| 05:48:19 | <mr_archive> | That is sad. The programmers of YouTube have truly created a monster. Disabling polymer made things less crazy. |
| 05:48:54 | <mr_archive> | What I mean by that is that it's horrible. I remember seeing strings repeating 100s if not 1000s of times. |
| 05:49:45 | <mr_archive> | DuckDuckGo is able to search YouTube better than YouTube is able to search YouTube. |
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| 06:03:52 | <thuban> | as of their latest campaign in the adblock wars i've gone over to invidious+mpv pretty much entirely |
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| 17:11:03 | <Wayward> | https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/amazon-devices-will-soon-automatically-share-your-internet-with-neighbors/ |
| 17:11:15 | <Wayward> | Didn't see that coming. |
| 17:12:24 | <Wayward> | ring doorbells will now all connect to each other, presumably, to provide network load balancing and enable people without an internet connection in impoverished cities to purchase a ring doorbell |
| 17:13:12 | <Wayward> | at least that looks to be the marketing fluff |
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| 17:51:37 | <Ryz> | What's considered a good website and a bad website according too some blog post oo; - https://ryleescrazywebsite.wordpress.com/goodbad-websites/ |
| 17:56:58 | <@JAA> | I love the smell of drama in the morning... https://twitter.com/dreamwastaken/status/1398959443409358855 |
| 18:24:25 | <mr_archive> | Wayward, that seems like a bad idea. From a security standpoint what if someone modifies the doorbell to somehow tamper with the data it sends and receives? |
| 18:24:51 | <mr_archive> | Also what happended to normal doorbells? Why do people need these fancy ones? |
| 18:27:11 | <Ryz> | Could make the 'fancy' doorbells much more cheaper than the regular doorbells to outprice them out of the market s: |
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| 18:28:07 | <Doranwen> | there're already enough privacy issues with the Ring doorbells as it is :P |
| 18:28:39 | <mr_archive> | Ryz, that's funny (I'm assuming it's a joke). "if you are subscribed to someone it shows videos from your subscribers after the recommended videos.". To my knowledg that is no longer always correct. I've constantly seen people complain about not being shown videos from people they subscribe to. |
| 18:29:59 | <mr_archive> | Also I kind of liked the last one the article showed. The one under the "Gullas Arrestling" heading. It's simple and looks easy to navigate. |
| 18:30:03 | <Wayward> | To my knowledge, the "privacy implications" of Ring Doorbells aren't hardware technological in nature, but hosting and social issues. In other words, not really a hacker thing. |
| 18:31:12 | <Wayward> | But it would be neat to see someone slurping up other people's ring videos |
| 18:31:59 | <Ryz> | The subscription count for YouTube channels has been inflated, since the amount of people subscribed doesn't always collerate to the number of subscribers, like 10 million or 20 million subscribers and the videos tend to be around 1 million views; |
| 18:32:08 | <Doranwen> | right - they'd just be adding potential technological ones to the existing ones |
| 18:33:02 | <Ryz> | So what I'm assuming YouTube has decided is that the true subscription number is determined by the amount of people subscribed and logged in and watched the latest video in a certain amount of time (a day let's just say), and if it's higher, it gets recommended to non-subscribed people, and if it's lower, the subscribed people don't get notified an |
| 18:33:02 | <Ryz> | d the non-subscribed as well |
| 18:33:38 | <Ryz> | These assumptions from partially from some people were saying that I forgot the names of ><; |
| 18:35:04 | <mr_archive> | That does kind of make sense. If a small percentage of subscribers click on a video you wouldn't want to clutter everyones list with someone that likely won't be watched. |
| 18:35:19 | <mr_archive> | * something that likely ... |
| 18:43:48 | <Ryz> | There's an additional layer to the subscription situation, that notification bell, in order to make it an extra step in order to further filter out who is subscribed and who did the bell~ |
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| 21:35:08 | <Wayward> | I miss lingscars's old site design. |
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