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| 01:02:44 | <hexa-> | > All code in this project is licensed solely with the condition that any portion of it is not permitted to be used in the main youtube-dl fork, either directly or indirectly. It is also not permitted to be used in any project that contains contributions from either remitamine or dstftw. |
| 01:02:54 | <hexa-> | what is the reasoning behind this condition on https://github.com/animelover1984/youtube-dl |
| 01:03:01 | <hexa-> | it seems unneccesarily hostile :o |
| 01:05:04 | <hexa-> | https://github.com/animelover1984/youtube-dl/issues/18#issuecomment-761820321 |
| 01:05:06 | <hexa-> | x( |
| 01:08:15 | <@hook54321> | "Some included code is not compatible with either fork's licenses", that's your fault and you can fix that, lol. |
| 01:08:49 | <@JAA> | 'They already censor other forks as much as they can from their issue tracker' -- 'WHY WON'T YOU SUPPORT THIS FORK IN ADDITION TO YOUR CODE?!?!' |
| 01:08:54 | <@JAA> | Yeah, this is ridiculous. |
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| 01:13:38 | <Wayward> | Fortunately, such abuse of Copyright law is denied by the courts. Copyright cannot be used in such a manner, or for such a purpose, as to specifically deny access to intellectual works, but only to foster and further creative works and monetization of those works. In so many words. |
| 01:14:06 | <Wayward> | "Anyone can use this, except people I don't like" doesn't fly. |
| 01:14:15 | <atphoenix> | Choosing not to support code in other forks is not censorship of other forks. |
| 01:14:48 | <Wayward> | Doesn't matter. "Being choosy" is not supported. |
| 01:15:06 | <Wayward> | That only works under contract law, not copyright law. |
| 01:15:13 | <@JAA> | https://github.com/yt-dlp/yt-dlp/pull/31#issuecomment-766470622 |
| 01:16:00 | <@hook54321> | "Fork of youtube-dlc with additional features and fixes" 👀 |
| 01:16:42 | <@hook54321> | when is "Fork of youtube-dlp with additional features and fixes" going to be a thing? |
| 01:18:36 | <Wayward> | (ps. Copyright licenses do not stand as fully qualified contracts under contract law, on their own, without Copyright law backing them.) |
| 01:20:01 | <SCSi> | yeah i saw that too in the code and if there was a reason on why it was there |
| 01:23:02 | <SCSi> | then i saw: "It is also not permitted to be used in any project that contains contributions from either remitamine or dstftw." and said "oh, its personal" |
| 01:23:16 | <SCSi> | which hey, its his code, he wrote it |
| 01:23:53 | <Wayward> | if he didn't want to publish it, he should't have published it, or written it. |
| 01:24:43 | <atphoenix> | I'm not talking copyright or contracts. I'm talking about forks and claims of censorship. The original maintainers choosing to not support code in other forks via primary fork's issue tracker is not censorship of other forks. |
| 01:25:32 | <@hook54321> | I don't think he didn't want to publish the code |
| 01:25:54 | <Wayward> | I'm talking about the "not permitted for use" clause, which is a non-starter and can be safely ignored by any and all. |
| 01:25:56 | <@hook54321> | the sponsorblock integration on yt-dlp sounds neat |
| 01:26:00 | <atphoenix> | (I can see some tension if there are bugs in the primary fork that are fixed in other forks, and people post references in the primary's issue tracker pointing to the other forks as either solutions or workarounds. I think those references should stand. But issues related to stuff done in other forks has no place on the primary.) |
| 01:29:23 | <Wayward> | I think people look at "for personal non-commercial use" and think they can simply modify it to say "cannot be used by redheads or athiests." |
| 01:30:56 | <Wayward> | the 'non-commercial use' clause comes specifically from the author engaging in a "market" for commercial product sales, and commercial use would usurp that market. |
| 01:30:58 | <atphoenix> | one could have lots of fun with such conditions. "cannot be used by mammals" "cannot be used by computer-literate people" etc. |
| 01:31:13 | <SCSi> | 'cannot be used by people who's name ends in a vowel' |
| 01:32:00 | <Wayward> | The courts would not identify "remitamine" or "dstftw" as valid "markets." |
| 01:34:38 | <SCSi> | 'everyone can use my red wagon except these two cuz they are meany-faces' |
| 01:34:38 | <atphoenix> | The Medusa Clause "If you can read this, you cannot use it. If you use it, you may turn into stone." |
| 01:36:13 | <SCSi> | i dunno, to me the whole thing just seems petty |
| 01:36:42 | <SCSi> | but im not a programmer |
| 01:36:47 | <SCSi> | so i got no skin in the game |
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| 02:59:16 | <atphoenix> | I found some old web archives on a CD. I don't know the name of the program that created them and have not yet found enough clues in the archive files themselves to track it down. Here's what I know: |
| 03:04:42 | <atphoenix> | Archives were created by a program available in 1998-1999. One website's output is saved into a triad of 3 files using the extensions .CAT/.BRF/.NAD. |
| 03:04:56 | <atphoenix> | .CAT (seems to be a catalog file, is mostly text-based) |
| 03:05:11 | <atphoenix> | .BRF (initial bytes of these files start with NBBF-TDI, small size tells me this is metadata, but is some kind of encoded data, mostly not text) |
| 03:05:18 | <atphoenix> | .NAD (initial bytes start with NBDB-TDI, size suggests this is the content database) |
| 03:06:00 | <atphoenix> | all were stored in a folder called 'briefs' |
| 03:09:09 | <atphoenix> | unfortunately I do not see any other tools or other metadata in the folder |
| 03:21:51 | <atphoenix> | archive content appears to be from starhack.ml.org (Starcraft mods), www.mcdata.com/~meh0045/homewire/wire_guide.html , www.nat32.com/bbs/ , www.otex.org/help.htm (Otex Lan 5.0) , www.syquest.com , Micropolis stuff , parazar amiga archive stuff |
| 03:23:33 | <atphoenix> | This is a case example of why metadata matters, documentation matters, and standards matter. But so does archiving the tools needed to read the archives. |
| 03:28:55 | <atphoenix> | I guess Parazar probably is the outlink I found via Google from http://vagtholm.com/my_favorites.html (from 2003) to the dead http://www.abel.co.uk/~ncc1701d/ |
| 03:46:01 | <atphoenix> | heh....ancient....https://www.angelfire.com/ga/onehomepage/ has Netscape Now icons at the bottom... |
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| 05:15:14 | <atphoenix> | I have a lead NetAttaché Pro: http://web.archive.org/web/19990116234825/http://www.tympani.com/products/NAPro/NAPro.html and http://web.archive.org/web/19990116224102/http://www.tympani.com/store/NAProExtractTool.html |
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| 05:23:09 | <Wayward> | neat. i hadn't found anything. |
| 05:26:12 | <atphoenix> | I found another folder in another part of the tree on the CD that had that software in it. No descriptions of course. http://www.internet-gopher.com/toolkit/download.htm mentions it too. |
| 05:26:44 | <atphoenix> | I'm not sure if I'll be able to get this to work on Windows 10... tests underway... |
| 05:30:55 | <atphoenix> | okay, I got the software installed and running on Win10, but I don't have a way to view the built-in help as Win10 as WinHlp32 is no longer available. The software has a local server component that runs in the system tray. I think I need to configure it as a proxy for the browser. |
| 05:31:31 | <atphoenix> | And I found info on the file descriptions in the installer: |
| 05:31:37 | <atphoenix> | NetAttache Pro produces several types of files. Archive files are: |
| 05:31:38 | <atphoenix> | BRF files -- (news.brf, etc.) are brief organizer files that contain collections of URLs (bookmarks) or search engine queries. These are portable and can be distributed to other NetAttaché users (including NetAttaché Light users). Be sure to remove any passwords used to access protected sites before you share these files with someone else. Tympani Development periodically posts new sample brief organizer files in its Brief Librar |
| 05:31:38 | <atphoenix> | y page (http://www.tympani.com/products/BriefLib.html), which you can download. |
| 05:31:38 | <atphoenix> | CAT files -- (news.cat, etc.) contain the archive list (list of previous loadings of briefs) for each brief. These are separate from the BRF files to ensure that the BRF files are completely portable between different computers and directories. |
| 05:31:41 | <atphoenix> | NAD files -- (NetAttaché brief data files) contain in a compact form each Web download. These files are also portable. |
| 05:33:00 | <atphoenix> | So this should be the right software. Just now to figure out how to read it. If I can read get it to load in a browser, I suppose I can convert it to standard HTML files via HTTrack or wpull/wget. |
| 05:33:40 | <atphoenix> | r/read// |
| 05:34:53 | <atphoenix> | this feels like electronic archaeology |
| 06:00:19 | <atphoenix> | success! I've been able to access the archives. Also, it looks like IA does *not* have this version of the Micropolis website from November 19, 1997. The site was dead soon after (e.g. http://web.archive.org/web/19971210070112/http://www.micropolis.com:80/ ) and brand dead in 1998. |
| 06:02:28 | <atphoenix> | For kicks, their newly introduced drives were 20 GB :) |
| 06:05:36 | <atphoenix> | kudos are due to Microsoft for 23 years of backwards compatibility sufficient for me to get this working. |
| 06:07:04 | <Wayward> | I'm surprised if Win10 totally eliminated WinHelp |
| 06:07:38 | <Wayward> | got rid of the .hlp file format and uses .chm perhaps. |
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| 07:22:49 | <tech234a> | Yeah, WinHelp has been gone for a while. Attempting to open a .hlp file opens a webpage, possibly https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/error-opening-help-in-windows-based-programs-feature-not-included-or-help-not-supported-3c841463-d67c-6062-0ee7-1a149da3973b |
| 07:23:02 | <tech234a> | Wine might have a viewer |
| 07:24:03 | <Arcorann> | I had a tool that could open .hlp files but I forgot what it was called |
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| 11:37:26 | <Wayward> | Whenever I powder my body in chalk and dance before the firelight, retelling the stories of our ancestors... i end up getting a copyright strike. |
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| 16:38:32 | <atphoenix> | I found this on WinHlp: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-other_settings-winpc/winhlp32exe-windows-10/5971eda3-3a07-4156-af2a-926c65eb5a0c |
| 16:38:33 | <atphoenix> | https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_tSrOg4FLp1T0dyTEppaW9SYm8 |
| 16:38:33 | <atphoenix> | https://drive.google.com/uc?id=0B_tSrOg4FLp1T0dyTEppaW9SYm8&export=download |
| 16:41:55 | <Wayward> | atphoenix, neat. |
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| 19:42:13 | <HP_Archivist> | atphoenix: Hey - did you want me to hold onto the unlisted Louis Weisz video or can I delete? Not sure if you grabbed 'part 6' from that night we were both watching |
| 19:42:20 | <HP_Archivist> | I'd like to delete if you have a copy |
| 19:47:46 | <HP_Archivist> | Here's the full title with YT ID Louis Weisz20210210_Meat Beater 9001 - (Slapping a Chicken Until it's Cooked part 6)_1280x720_n00HeVPDAeE lmk if I can delete |
| 19:47:59 | <HP_Archivist> | Or if someone wants I can get them a copy, but I have to conserve space |
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| 20:56:50 | <atphoenix> | HP_Archivist, how big is it? |
| 20:57:22 | <HP_Archivist> | atphoenix: With ytdl metadata files 3.36GB total |
| 20:58:13 | <atphoenix> | yea, I'm willing to keep it. Worst case I can throw it on one of my extra DVD-Rs. I was recently given a few empty spindles. |
| 20:58:14 | <HP_Archivist> | with just the mkv it's pretty much the same, though. json, thumbnail images, etc are byte size |
| 20:58:46 | <HP_Archivist> | Let me see if I can upload today and I'll ping you with the link |
| 20:59:43 | <atphoenix> | I'm not sure I'm interested in all the prior versions, and am not sure we need the highest quality versions. Essentially I think 480p is more than enough for this. But if you already have something higher res that is that 3.3 GB version, that's fine too. |
| 21:00:48 | <atphoenix> | part of this comment is derived from the enjoyment I still see in the 160x120x 10 fps videos I have uncovered in the past few days on some 20 year old CD-Rs. |
| 21:01:04 | <atphoenix> | yea they're low res and low FPS, but the story is still told. |
| 21:02:04 | <atphoenix> | that content cache is where I found those old website archives I was talking about last night. |
| 21:02:31 | <HP_Archivist> | I missed this convo ^^ |
| 21:02:36 | <HP_Archivist> | But heh, interesting take. |
| 21:02:42 | <HP_Archivist> | Yeah my script is set for highest possible grab |
| 21:02:46 | <HP_Archivist> | hence the 3GB file |
| 21:03:07 | <HP_Archivist> | I'm trying to see where I could upload this too |
| 21:04:38 | <atphoenix> | Notkisk-a could be an option. It doesn't need to sit there very long, I know kisk-a does need to clean up space periodically but short term probably is okay. |
| 21:06:46 | <atphoenix> | otherwise, I guess I could run ytdl myself, then you don't need to upload anything. Just tell me which command line parameters you used. |
| 21:07:57 | <atphoenix> | I need to go AFK. It's too nice outside today to be PC-bound. Winter has been long and today does not feel like winter. |
| 21:09:05 | <HP_Archivist> | atphoenix: I'll try notkisk later on |
| 21:09:10 | <HP_Archivist> | enjoy the wweather, agreed! |
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| 21:51:53 | <@JAA> | atphoenix, HP_Archivist: The disk issues there are mostly solved now, so that would be fine, especially if you delete it again afterwards. |
| 21:54:55 | <thuban> | does transfer.sh have a delete api? |
| 22:01:03 | <@JAA> | Yes, there's an X-Url-Delete header that gives you a URL to issue a DELETE request against. |
| 22:01:31 | <@JAA> | (Only with PUT uploads, cf. https://github.com/dutchcoders/transfer.sh/issues/237 ) |
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| 22:06:36 | <thuban> | huh, til! |
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