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00:52:56<pabs>AK: I was thinking about doing an AB on some IRC log sites, then adding them to #// urls-sources. didn't get around to doing anything yet
00:53:36<pabs>found two sites so far: https://irclog.tymoon.eu/ https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/
00:54:09<pabs>probably could find many more using my local IRC logs or searching live channel topics
01:01:01<h2ibot>JAABot edited CurrentWarriorProject (-6): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=49728&oldid=49720
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01:23:08<Terbium>Uh oh, Pushshift has been banned by reddit Admins from the API Reddit Data API Update: Changes to Pushshift Access - https://old.reddit.com/r/modnews/comments/134tjpe/reddit_data_api_update_changes_to_pushshift_access/
01:23:24<@JAA>→ #shreddit (already mentioned there)
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01:57:11<h2ibot>Tech234a edited Reddit (+205, /* Vital signs */ Pushshift banned): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=49729&oldid=49675
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02:17:14<h2ibot>JustAnotherArchivist edited In The Media (+222, /* 2023 */ Add Motherboard article on Imgur,…): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=49730&oldid=49623
02:27:16<h2ibot>AvantApres edited Andriasang (+199): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=49732&oldid=49565
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02:48:23<moshe>I wrote a scraper script for a particular public site to download all of their videos, including ones that were made available in the past, but are no longer linked to on their website (but the resources are still live). Is this something potentially useful for your group? Happy to discuss more details and the script in DM if yes
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02:49:39<@JAA>moshe: Sounds potentially interesting, feel free to PM me.
02:51:06<moshe>Will do, thanks
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03:00:22<h2ibot>JAABot edited Main Page/In The Media (-4): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=49733&oldid=49624
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03:57:29<atphoenix>OrIdow6, Shutterfly has started sending out emails saying that access has been restored. So I guess you could try your scripts again.
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04:15:48<@OrIdow6>Know where it can be accessed atphoenix? The test sites I was using just redirect to the homepage now
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04:23:44<atphoenix>if I'm logged in, I'm able to access content at https://photos.shutterfly.com/ https://www.shutterfly.com/mySavedProjects/
04:24:05<atphoenix>I'm not sure how much content was available without login. What was an example URL you had?
04:26:57<@OrIdow6>https://0415ada.shutterfly.com/ shows up in my history
04:28:05<@OrIdow6>Both those URLs you gave redirect me to a login page, makes me think this is a non-public thing
04:29:23<nicolas17>https://notnow.dev/notice/AVESb9szuwAjrtabpY
04:29:56<nicolas17>^ he's downloading all posts on bluesky
04:33:42<atphoenix>OrIdow6, it is also possible they only did a partial restoration. We're still a few days ahead of May 10. The test site redirects to homepage even when logged in.
04:34:20<atphoenix>it is also possible they've restored as much as they intend to restore (people's files inside accounts)
04:34:38<@OrIdow6>atphoenix: Fingers crossed for May 10 I guess
04:34:48<@OrIdow6>But yeah it's certainly possible
04:35:01<@OrIdow6>Good on them for giving people the photos though, much better than nothing
04:43:14<nicolas17>https://notnow.dev/notice/AVEXlXaj8UOm3VoVAO "Not sure what to do with [the data dump] yet"
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05:44:39<@OrIdow6>Not sure whether the no-Mastadon policy applies to Bluesky
05:45:54<@OrIdow6>I am inclined to say no, because AFAIK it's intended to be a big mass-consumerism thing rather than a small community
05:47:49<qwertyasdfuiopghjkl>OrIdow6: I thought that was some custom thing, not just a mastodon instance?
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05:57:41<xkey>VICE said to file bankruptcy soon https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/01/business/media/vice-bankruptcy.html
05:58:09<xkey>seems to be well archived, but maybe its worth to take a look
06:00:18<atphoenix>I agree that BlueSky and T2 are both Twitter-derivatives with a different ethos from Fediverse/Mastodon instances. I see them as spiritual forks.
06:01:11<@OrIdow6>qwertyasdfuiopghjkl: Yeah it's not, but it's similar enough that I think it at least warrants some discussion
06:09:47<qwertyasdfuiopghjkl>Looking at the Wikipedia page ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluesky_Social?useskin=vector ), it's not using the same protocol and looks like it won't even be able to communicate with Mastodon instances, so I'm not sure where any similarity comes from. Maybe you could clarify?
06:10:17<atphoenix>clarification: spiritual forks of Twitter (not of Mastodon). A significant factor are the players behind it...Jack Dorsey of Twitter. They're not adopting Fediverse and trying to become the biggest Fediverse instance.
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06:24:55<qwertyasdfuiopghjkl>(to clarify, I was asking OrIdow6 why/in what ways they think it's similar enough to possibly be considered indistinguishable from Mastodon)
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06:44:49<atphoenix>IMO, the similarity is Bluesky is being designed as 'decentralized social media'. The difference is who is running it, and who is using it, and how it is being used, and what I think the expectations for it are/will be. I sense it will be culturally more like Twitter in terms of how it will be used...if it is used. There's no guarantee that any of these newer platforms will be adopted at scale.
06:49:17<tech234a>Search is coming to Mastodon, at which point it may make sense to review the policy https://mastodon.social/@Mastodon/110294411952997299
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06:50:35<JTL>IMO, while far from perfect Mastodon has been the most successful attempt at a modern federated social media platorm and it'll be curious to see how Bluesky potentially shakes things up (if at all)
06:51:23<qwertyasdfuiopghjkl>Also, I might be missing something here (and also I'm currently very tired), but blanket-ignoring all sites that are using a specific web hosting software seems very over-broad and high-collateral damage as it is. https://wiki.archiveteam.org/index.php/Mastodon does not seem to provide any reason or expiry date for this policy either, so I don't
06:51:23<qwertyasdfuiopghjkl>see any reason for trying to start recursively applying it to large chunks of the internet?
06:55:08<@JAA>The policy is not really only Mastodon but the entire network. Pleroma etc. would be handled the same, I think. I'm not sure there's a distinct name for the social networking part of the Fediverse (we've archived some PeerTube stuff, for example, because that's pretty separate). But it's basically only come up in connection with Mastodon so far.
06:56:34<@JAA>I don't think Bluesky would have to be treated like that, but I'm not sure.
06:58:43<tech234a>"Many long-standing Mastodon/Fediverse users are opposed to data-collection stuff, including searching and archiving." https://old.reddit.com/r/Mastodon/comments/z9ffck/are_mastodon_feedsservers_archived_somewhere/
07:03:47<@JAA>'Opposed' is a very diplomatic way of saying it, but yeah, basically that.
07:05:01<nicolas17>if the regulars of a publicly-readable forum were "opposed" to people archiving it, would we not archive it?
07:07:23<@JAA>nicolas17: Let me put it like this: if you were receiving credible death threats over something you're archiving, would you continue doing it?
07:07:26<qwertyasdfuiopghjkl>The main question I was trying to ask was why is the exclusion so overly broad? I'm pretty sure it's possible to set mastodon accounts and even entire instances to login-only now (guessing this wasn't the case 4 years ago?), which sounds like it automatically solves the "not wanting to be archived or indexed" issue.
07:08:23<nicolas17>the hypothetical forum regulars giving death threats to archiveteam for daring to archive their forum?
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07:10:27<@JAA>Something like that, yes.
07:22:44<qwertyasdfuiopghjkl>wtf, actual death threats? From what I've seen of mastodon, that seems rather weird/unlikely to have as a source of them. (unless you were archiving some far-right/nazi instance or something?) I'd have expected stuff like death threats, if any, to primarily come from a lot sketchier sites. (also, sorry if what I'm typing does not make sense, I'm
07:22:45<qwertyasdfuiopghjkl>almost falling asleep so it's getting difficult to word things understandably)
07:27:15<@OrIdow6>If I understand the history right (this was before my time), we were "techbros" come to do our thing without their permission
07:28:11<qwertyasdfuiopghjkl>Not sure I decode that sentence.
07:28:18<qwertyasdfuiopghjkl>*understand
07:28:21<qwertyasdfuiopghjkl>sorry
07:29:10<@OrIdow6>As to the mentality that I understand led to death threats
07:29:30<@OrIdow6>But I wasn't here then and it seems it's one of those things we avoid talking about
07:31:15<@OrIdow6>Anyhow, I think the type of person who chooses to be on Mastaodon probably is also the type of person to be suspicious of what we do and to strongly express those suspicions
07:33:05<@OrIdow6>If Bluesky is not full of, so to speak, hermits, I think we run less of a risk (a risk of retaliation and more importantly a risk that the users won't like what we do)
07:34:30<@OrIdow6>And as usual I am relatively conservative on this. If a forum's membership was uniformly opposed to a public archive I wouldn't do it
07:35:55<@OrIdow6>That being said I don't completely understand the decentralization aspect of BlueSky yet. That word gets thrown around, but everything I have heard so far makes it sound centralized
07:36:09<@OrIdow6>So if it fragments somehow the situation may change
07:36:51<@OrIdow6>s/completely/at all/
07:36:51<nicolas17>I think the protocol supports decentralization/federation but it's not enabled or fully implemented yet
07:39:32<nicolas17>if you miraculously manage to install their weird server software, it won't actually federate with the "main" instance
07:39:43<@JAA>The details are complicated. A specific instance we archived was the immediate trigger, then a discussion on the Fediverse involving a non-regular speaking in our name spiralled out of control, which then drew attention to what we do in the broader sense. The death threats were due to that specific instance, but people were very angry in general about our Mastodon/Fediverse archival. Hence, the policy
07:39:49<@JAA>was born.
07:44:15<flashfire42>Oh god that dude
07:45:27<@OrIdow6>Does sound like it could make for an interesting little historical writeup (but not now)
07:46:37<@JAA>Agreed
07:47:01<flashfire42>https://twitter.com/textfiles/status/1133235655931322368?s=20
07:50:31<@JAA>(Inaccurate)
07:50:34<qwertyasdfuiopghjkl>OrIdow6: I'm not really sure what you're trying to say in the sentences at 07:31 and 07:33 UTC. I might be missing some context (probably because I'm tired or maybe due to not having English as my native language) but the sentences look kind of empty of any actual stuff you're trying to convey. Replying to your message at 07:34, I agree it would
07:50:34<qwertyasdfuiopghjkl>make more sense to decide it case by (instance) case and not generalize the opinion of someone/a few people over all the thousands of instances. (?)
07:50:45<JTL>I don't have citations handy, but I vaguely recall discussion elsewhere about an attempt at fediverse indexing having shutdown because of backlash
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07:51:04<qwertyasdfuiopghjkl>(slow at typing, message possibly outdated when I send)
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07:53:14<@OrIdow6>qwertyasdfuiopghjkl: What I am saying is, the greater extent BlueSky is in the "mainstream", the less risk we run of a backlash
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07:55:00<@OrIdow6>*the
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08:15:02<qwertyasdfuiopghjkl>Looking at j aa's message and the twitter link, if the issue was someone claiming to be archive team and being an asshole to people, apparently severely enough to get death threats, wouldn't it make more sense to just explain the impersonation (and temporarily pause stuff if needed), instead of indefinitely ignoring everything related to Mastodon?
08:18:03<qwertyasdfuiopghjkl>It would be helpful if someone could possibly figure out what went wrong and add it to the wiki page, so it's possible to figure out whether the rule is still relevant/makes sense or could be clarified or reconsidered.
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09:49:32<AK>Have started putting some vice sites through AB
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10:51:02<pabs>I was thinking of doing AB on these ancient IRC chat logs https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/communications/logs/
10:51:12<pabs>but then I thought maybe just do the whole thing? https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/
10:52:43<pabs>could be a very big site though...
10:53:47<pabs>and some of it seems like mirrors of other stuff
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12:30:42<Hans5958|m>What happens when a service is close to its death? Something like mastodon.lol is expected to close on May 9. Are there preparations for something like these?
12:32:21<Hans5958|m>(Okay, that one is already dead, but my point is are there specific preparations behind the scenes?)
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12:47:18<AK>Unfortunately AT won't do anything for mastodon instances unless asked by the owner "Since May 2019, ArchiveTeam no longer archives content from Mastodon instances or accounts unless requested explicitly by the owner(s)." https://wiki.archiveteam.org/index.php/Mastodon
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12:50:37<Hans5958|m>Okay, but the other sites?
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12:58:09<AK>For other sites they're added to deathwatch (https://wiki.archiveteam.org/index.php/Deathwatch) and then if they're big enough/complicated to archive a project can be started to grab them
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13:03:20<Hans5958|m>Is it checked regularly, as in "we made sure we have it backed up before the death"?
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13:20:24<AK>I don't know of a formalized process, I think a few people keep an eye on it. Everyone here is a volunteer so thinks do sometimes slip through the cracks
13:21:15<Hans5958|m>I see. At least I'm assured someone watch it. Thanks
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16:05:08<avilen2>Nice to meet you. I would like to give my respect to all archivists for their work.
16:05:38<avilen2>I came here by looking at the following URL, but I was wondering if it is possible to download a torrent of the Japanese nifty.com sites.
16:05:40<avilen2>https://wiki.archiveteam.org/index.php/Nifty
16:06:06<avilen2>I could find torrents at "Geocities Archive" and other sites.
16:06:35<@JAA>qwertyasdfuiopghjkl: As I said, Jason's tweet is inaccurate. The impersonation was only part of what happened there.
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16:40:40<qwertyasdfuiopghjkl>JAA: Just woke up and re-read the messages here, still not really sure what else happened besides the impersonation. Do you have any more-accurate information you could link? Thanks.
16:54:57<pokechu22>avilen2: https://archive.fart.website/archivebot/viewer/?q=nifty.com is probably a starting point
16:57:20<@JAA>qwertyasdfuiopghjkl: Nope, don't think there's a writeup anywhere. What I wrote at 07:39 is about the most accurate description in public.
16:57:36<pokechu22>ugh, though most of them are probably !a < list jobs that won't show up on the dashboard like that, e.g. https://archive.fart.website/archivebot/viewer/domain/urls-sanqui.rustedlogic.net-nifty_wikimedia_sites.txt https://archive.fart.website/archivebot/viewer/domain/urls-sanqui.rustedlogic.net-nifty_wikimedia_sites_fix.txt
16:57:38<pokechu22>https://archive.fart.website/archivebot/viewer/domain/urls-raw.githubusercontent.com-hatena.txt
17:14:46<@Sanqui>avilen2: hello. There is no single torrent, the data is split across many "WARC" archives of websites. Those archives are linked under the "job:" URLs. All of the data was also absorbed into the archive.org Wayback Machine.
17:15:35<@Sanqui>the job: links lead to e.g. https://archive.fart.website/archivebot/viewer/?q=3spkhvzhep0azp811nk4zelw5, where you click on the 3spkh link and there you can either download individual warc.gz archives for that portion of data
17:16:03<@Sanqui>the .json file shows the URLhttps://gist.githubusercontent.com/anonymous/c8212a801bf5f9b278949da7f56c1a5a/raw/1d74e36b61142f50a8f669e793da952f03ef629d/shuushuuniftylinks.txt which means the warc archive contains those nifty.com sites
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17:56:06<nostalgebraist>been using warrior for Telegram, and the upload step is failing recently. i don't think it's just me, since http://tracker.archiveteam.org/telegram/ is motionless
17:57:01<nostalgebraist>logs look like
17:57:01<nostalgebraist>> Uploading with Rsync to rsync://optane9.targets.atinfra.net:8898/ateam-airsync/nostalgebraist/
17:57:01<nostalgebraist>> Starting RsyncUpload for Item post:abshdh:2481724
17:57:01<nostalgebraist>> @ERROR: max connections (-1) reached -- try again later
17:57:01<nostalgebraist>> rsync error: error starting client-server protocol (code 5) at main.c(1675) [sender=3.1.3]
17:57:03<nostalgebraist>> Process RsyncUpload returned exit code 5 for Item post:abshdh:2481724
17:57:05<nostalgebraist>> Failed RsyncUpload for Item post:abshdh:2481724
17:57:07<nostalgebraist>> Retrying after 60 seconds...
17:57:33<@JAA>nostalgebraist: #telegrab is the channel for that project.
18:00:05<avilen2>Sanqui Thank you!
18:01:48<avilen2>Sanqui I can enjoy the old information. Thanks again.
18:02:59<avilen2>Sanqui If you know of any, please let me know. Are there any archived forum logs from nifty-serve, a Japanese service like the old compu-serve? I could not find any information as far as I searched the internet.
18:04:19<@Sanqui>I am happy if you can use the data! I helped with the nifty archival a little. The goal of that project was nifty homepages. We work on a lot of projects, it is always busy, and we rarely have time to look back.
18:04:40<@Sanqui>according to Wikipedia, nifty-serve was shut down in 2006. That is before Archive Team started operation.
18:05:34<@Sanqui>Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any archives of nifty-serve. But I would love to know about them if they exist.
18:06:21<avilen2>That is unfortunate. As far as I can tell from 2ch and 5ch in Japan, there was a private and anonymous archivist who was creating the archive at the time, but I could not obtain it because I do not know him. Thank you for your response.
18:07:33<@Sanqui>avilen2: Wayback Machine has some captures of Nifty-serve websites:
18:07:34<@Sanqui>https://web.archive.org/web/19981212031409/http://www.nifty.ne.jp/
18:07:37<@Sanqui>https://web.archive.org/web/19961221221955/http://www.niftyserve.or.jp/
18:08:17<@Sanqui>If the forums were accessible over WWW, the Wayback Machine may contain some parts of it.
18:17:17<avilen2>Sanqui Thank you very much. I also looked for the information in the INTERNET ARCHIVE, but I could not find any information about the PC communication era on the Internet site. I found a large number of forums such as the following It would be interesting to see them now.
18:17:19<avilen2>https://tomocha.net/files/NIFTY/FOURM.TXT
18:18:49<avilen2>I will try to find it in the hope that one day I will be able to see it. Thanks.
18:19:03<icee>JAA: it looks like it's multiple projects failing rsync upload... urls and telegram both for me
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18:19:22<@JAA>Yeah, I've already poked the relevant person.
18:19:26<icee>OK, thnks
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18:28:00<@Sanqui>avilen2: I hope you find Nifty-Serve forum data and will be able to share it on the internet. Good luck!
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18:59:22<icedice>https://kotaku.com/worst-zelda-s-adventure-cdi-philips-game-boy-port-1850393486
18:59:43<icedice>^ You might want to back this up before Nintendo inevitably yeets it
19:00:24<icedice>https://john-lay.itch.io/zeldas-adventure
19:00:39<@JAA>Itch :-|
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19:09:07<icedice>It's downloadable from there
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19:09:22<icedice>Probably not easy to archive to Wayback Machine though
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19:11:09<@JAA>It worked. It won't be easy to find, but it will be there.
19:11:46<@JAA>The download uses POST requests, so it can't work in the WBM anyway.
19:14:44<icedice>Ok
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19:34:27<Ryz>JAA, any idea on how to archive Itch.io stuff? Mm? :c
19:35:29<Barto>It seems my warriors are idle since 18:15 UTC. Is something going wrong on my end?
19:35:34<@JAA>Ryz: Not properly, but in this case, I just took the actual download URL from a browser and chucked it into AB. The download itself is a temporary URL from a CDN.
19:35:39<@JAA>Barto: Known target issues.
19:36:07<Barto>ok, thanks. CPU went from 75% to 20% lol
19:36:25<Barto>At some point you guys will make me buy a dedicated NAS for that shenanigans
19:36:40<nicolas17>gateway drug
19:36:59<@JAA>Before you know it, you'll have a whole rack in your apartment and rent 25G internet. lol
19:37:36<nicolas17>I'm primarily limited in storage, but I need a Proper Income before I can go spend it all on disks
19:38:13<Barto>Aiming for FTTH in 2024 already JAA, but racks are too noisy
19:38:46<Barto>I've that 2U that is rusting that i "stole" from the trash at a previous job, it should do a perfect coffee table one day
19:39:33<nicolas17>Barto: https://twitter.com/swiftonsecurity/status/1650223598903382016
19:39:52<nicolas17>https://twitter.com/swiftonsecurity/status/1650226215062753280
19:39:54<nicolas17>servers are loud.
19:40:35<@JAA>They sure are.
19:43:17<Ryz>S:
19:46:47<Barto>Hence the coffee table option
19:47:13<Barto>because i powered that machine once, and oh boy was it loud for a 32bit intel cpu and 2GB of ram
19:51:28<@JAA>Use it as a coffee table *and* power it on. Coffee heater!
19:52:00<Barto>only power it on when having a coffee with boring people. You'll only hear the machine
19:53:27<CrispyAlice2>When I was in high school my parents made the terrible mistake of letting me buy a 1U server off ebay. My noise solution was to put it next to my brothers room instead of my own
19:54:07<Barto>Poor brother
19:54:13<Barto>You owe him a beer
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20:26:17<nicolas17>welp Apple released OS betas
20:26:25<nicolas17>time to waste 2 hours on that
20:34:03<Billy549>nicolas17: once Rsync works again for Imgur ill go update :D
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21:13:18<nicolas17>Billy549: oh I'm not updating my devices
21:13:31<nicolas17>I'm updating theapplewiki.com
21:13:49<Billy549>oh derp
21:14:01<nicolas17>:D
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21:19:40<avilen2>Sanqui I found someone who has archived the Geocities japan URL list and will share it with you.
21:19:41<avilen2>https://github.com/CloudRemix/geocities
21:20:55hzn joins
21:25:20<avilen2>From his site, it looks like he also has URLs about Japanese infoseek isweb and @homepage which were closed in the past. However, they are not publicly available.
21:25:21<avilen2>https://qiita-com.translate.goog/CloudRemix/items/6a67bb93b88c8b48c8ee?_x_tr_sl=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=ja&_x_tr_pto=wapp
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21:39:08<CrispyAlice2>JAA: I got the container to probably run on arm, my issue earlier was that I had to separately install qemu to use it, otherwise docker silently just didn't do the emulation. Is there some sort of way to verify correct behavior before actually using it? No reason it shouldn't work, but a little paranoia never hurt anyone
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23:41:15<pabs>company acquired: https://www.fakespot.com/post/fakespot-acquired-by-mozilla
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