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01:19:12<Mister_Argent>Howdy!
01:19:58<Mister_Argent>Just got done setting up The Warrior on Proxmox - All I had to do was some light hard disk image conversion voodoo.
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04:06:13<LegitSi>I went on a pilgrimage to view all relevant information regarding Discord's new ToS change. I could not find anything about data mining anywhere, but it might be subtly hidden behind general terms.
04:06:45<LegitSi>I'm not the deciding factor in this, but what I am saying is that maybe we should look at it again and see if
04:06:48<LegitSi>"Note that use data mining, robots, spiders, or similar data gathering and extraction tools is against Discord's Terms of Service. Using these tools with your account may get your account banned. Use at your own risk!"
04:06:54<LegitSi>needs to either be deleted or revised.
04:07:06<LegitSi>I'm off to bed, see you in the morning/afternoon/evening/whenever.
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06:09:10<@OrIdow6>JAA: Are there examples of qwarc use anywhere?
06:09:16<@OrIdow6>This is apropos of Duolingo forums
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14:48:30<mirage335>Very cold storage needed ASAP. Need serious preservation, soon. Technology seed, a combination of by far the most complete FLOSS hardware/software/wetware design toolchain, and meticulous plans to build from there, that would be usable for any 'civilization' already having a strong mechanical power source (ie. steam engine), a dragline excavator,
14:48:31<mirage335>basic turing-complete semiconductor computers, and usable versions of information about the other technology components (ie. a good description of the typical functions of a GNU/Linux userspace and kernel from as far back as approximately 1998). Smallest adequate copy of the archive is as little as 184MB .
14:48:49<mirage335>https://mega.nz/folder/ye4AkBia#VaeJwoHkBekbxxUQvr1xpw
14:49:58<mirage335>There are three ISO images there. The BD image is largest, the DVD is more compatible but loses some stuff like repository history, the mCD (mini-CDROM) has the smallest set of files and loses stuff like some git submodules, but adequate versions of that stuff should exist in such forms as the GitHub Arctic World Archive.
14:50:51<mirage335>Some of what is in that archive (eg. 'arduinoUbuquitous' which actually has containment structures relevant to any embedded firmware development) is described at my page - mirage335.member.hacdc.org .
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14:53:19<mirage335>The plans document is here. https://raw.githubusercontent.com/mirage335/mirage335_documents/main/mirage335_documents.pdf
14:54:48<mirage335>Though if not written to optical discs the files should be stored in plaintext (eg. printed hardcopy of the 'mirage335_documents' document), the ISO disc image format is offered purposefully - optical discs have unique defocusing and embedding advantages. Some Verbatim BD-MDisc are expected most robust (much more robust than DVD-MDisc), some CDROM
14:54:48<mirage335>are expected most compatible.
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14:56:04<mirage335>Optical discs are also readable without electronics, or at least can be swapped into other electronics.
14:56:32<mirage335>Please, does anyone here have ideas or solutions to get this technology seed stored safely?
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17:15:48<@JAA>OrIdow6: Well, there are my previous projects with it. The code is always copied to the meta WARC.
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20:41:59<ThreeHM>With Youtube Vanced shutting down, we might want to grab the actual APK files that their "manager" would download when you install the app through it
20:42:34<ThreeHM>I've tried to compile a list of URLs from reading the code at https://github.com/YTVanced/VancedManager (specifically app/src/main/java/com/vanced/manager/core/downloader/VancedDownloader.kt and app/src/main/java/com/vanced/manager/core/downloader/MusicDownloader.kt)
20:42:59<ThreeHM>Using https://api.vancedapp.com/api/v1/latest.json and https://api.vancedapp.com/api/v1/versions.json to get a list of versions/languages/etc.
20:43:48<ThreeHM>Here is that list: https://share.ctrl-c.xyz/gz?72887ca32ee9f12d71887f79232629d3/yt-vanced-urls.txt.gz
20:44:46<ThreeHM>Maybe someone can look over that and throw it into AB
20:50:15<@arkiver>ThreeHM: putting it in!
20:53:15<@arkiver>ThreeHM: it's in
20:54:03<ThreeHM>Perfect, thanks!
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21:38:05<@OrIdow6>Thank you JAA
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21:42:22<hare>I am archiving Google Sites and my crawler has been going down a 8000+ link rabbit hole on all six of its threads. Will I eventually succeed should I persist, or is this a fool's errand?
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23:00:59<TheTechRobo>hare: In all of my experience with the Google Sites warrior project, it eventually tries to go to some sort of broken google sites endpoint that returns 0 (RETRFINISHED) or a 5xx error, then the crawl fails and it starts over...
23:01:07<TheTechRobo>Might have been fixed, tho
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23:02:20<hare>What I notice is that it tries to get every last piece of metadata from the site, which is probably holding them up from being submitted
23:06:55<mirage335>*sigh* Seems there is some discussion in here. Is everyone not interested in cold preservation of an FLOSS toolchain, or is this the wrong channel?
23:07:17<hare>?
23:08:00<@OrIdow6>TheTechRobo: #nearlylostmygoogles
23:09:00<TheTechRobo>mirage335: I don't know how to help you, which is why I didn't answer
23:09:55<mirage335>Any chance anyone else here does, or am I in the wrong place?
23:10:30<TheTechRobo>You might get answers on r/DataHoarder or similar communities
23:10:32<@OrIdow6>Not really the kind of thing we do here
23:10:58<mirage335>Thanks, I'll keep looking around.
23:11:23<mirage335>RAID arrays are specifically too 'warm' though.
23:11:41<atphoenix>mirage335: there have been some similar efforts previously
23:11:59<appledash>mirage335: I will gladly archive a copy locally on archival-grade blu-ray and DVD
23:12:01<atphoenix>some were based on torrent distribution
23:12:07<mirage335>Any information about those would help.
23:12:11<appledash>Is there anything particular you'd like me to include on paper or on the disks?
23:12:15<mirage335>appledash Thanks, appreciate!
23:12:16<appledash>written on the disks*
23:12:29<mirage335>Just the image.
23:12:56<mirage335>They're standalone, thanks. Just burn them, and put them somewhere *safe*, that's the idea.
23:13:02<atphoenix>there are also methods to write bulk data on paper: PaperDisk is an older one. QR might be considered newer
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23:13:32<appledash>Oh, sorry, I meant physically, not electronically
23:13:52<atphoenix>IIRC paperdisk and similar got about 1 MB on an 8.5x11 sheet
23:14:04<mirage335>atphoenix Ah. When it comes to how to store the data, physical printout of the document, and burning the optical disc image, is pretty good, and while improvements are great, I think the most urgent thing is just to get copies written somehow.
23:14:26<mirage335>Optical disc storage is something people widely have.
23:16:01<mirage335>atphoenix The hard problem I am trying to solve most urgently is just getting some copies made around the world, and put in safe places.
23:16:34<atphoenix>The appropriate solution really depends on how much bootstrapping is needed. Sometimes basic instructions are made clearly available, and those describe more complex methods to read more heavily encoded information. I think that's what was done for one of the Voyager discs.
23:17:05<mirage335>Indeed. And for that, physical printouts of the document I wrote help.
23:17:14<atphoenix>lots of copies -> LOCKSS effort
23:17:22<mirage335>Yeah, that doesn't go quite far enough.
23:18:31<mirage335>I think it's a decent bet that 'warm' storage might not be around, but 'cold' storage might be, and with some basic knowledge of optics, at least an old fashioned CDROM could be read out by a machine that could use the technology anyway, and before that, the document I wrote explains a lot of what modern technology is, and where it goes, from a
23:18:31<mirage335>steam-engine and cable-excavator level of civilization.
23:19:12<atphoenix>Consider the threat you are attempting to mitigate. That'll inform you on how many copies are needed. Copies alone aren't enough. They need to be retrievable, and interpretable by someone.
23:19:24<mirage335>Indeed.
23:20:53<mirage335>I already have 'graceful degradation' built in. If BD drives are still around, or the knowledge to use blue-wavelength light to read out a disc with a compound microscope and some basic understanding of cryptanalysis exists, then recovery time is fast and more complete.
23:21:47<appledash>I am quite interested myself in preservation of information like this, but I know I lack the knowledge to compile something myself, so it's really nice to see that someone else has put in some effort
23:22:01<mirage335>If all that are left are DVD drives, the smaller DVD image is missing some repository history, but there should be enough to reinstall the technology toolchain, at least if the GitHub archive still exists somewhere, or at least a Debian userspace from *1998*.
23:22:47<atphoenix>you may find these relevant: https://github.com/civboot/civboot https://www.openculture.com/2015/02/what-books-could-be-used-to-rebuild-civilization-lists-by-brian-eno-stewart-brand-kevin-kelly-other-forward-thinking-minds.html and Long Now
23:23:25<mirage335>If all we have is one old CDROM drive with a SCSI interface and a userspace of some crazy DOS, then all that is useful from that CDROM is the basic programming structure of things like ubiquitous_bash and arduinoUbiquitous. Could take a year or two to recreate the functionality, if it's even immediately recognized for what it is, but that's still
23:23:25<mirage335>better than years/decades.
23:24:48<mirage335>If things are even worse, then if a hardcopy printout, or something with the sort of recovery information Arctic World Archive stores (with Rosetta Stone equivalents and instructions alongside in the optical film), is the next best bet, and hopefully that will be enough to either read the CDROM, or if that fades away, a BD-MDisc should still be
23:24:48<mirage335>readable when the technology gets back to that point.
23:25:36<mirage335>appledash If you can get these discs copies and distributed to *safe* places, that would help *very* much. Even if it's just an anti-static bag or a can in a cold dark corner of your basement. :)
23:26:04<atphoenix>I shudder at the challenge of some random person getting a DOS system running today, without have driver disks, along with hardware knowledge including IRQ settings, and knowing about SCSI termination
23:26:40<atphoenix>it's *possible*. but going to be hard.
23:27:24<mirage335>At that point, that won't be some random person, but some retrocomputing enthusiast who happened to live in the safest part of the world and suddenly found theirself promoted to world computing expert and last computer user among not many other people. ;)
23:27:47<mirage335>atphoenix If you are interested in reading some stuff, you might want to look at this.
23:27:48<mirage335>mirage335.member.hacdc.org
23:28:08<mirage335>And more specifically the linked document there.
23:28:12<mirage335>https://raw.githubusercontent.com/mirage335/mirage335_documents/main/mirage335_documents.pdf
23:28:22<mirage335>That document is included on these discs.
23:28:54<atphoenix>if things came down to that, I think said retrocomputing enthusiast would be highly motivated to figure out self-preservation before spending resources on anything else
23:29:25<mirage335>Sure, until after things calm down enough to start thinking again about things like dying of old age.
23:29:42<appledash>Absolutely, mirage335 - I will gladly stick one in my fire/waterproof safe and send one to my friend who shares my interests and lives a few hours away, next time I mail him
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23:30:19<mirage335>appledash Excellent, thank you, very much.
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23:30:59<atphoenix>do you have an idea of how many copies you think are 'enough'?
23:31:05<mirage335>atphoenix Since the document I linked (and the discs I linked earlier) covers everything from how electrons/photons predominate the universe, how that turns into feedback loops and people, through to desktop EUVL prototyping, to what to do with that (eg. neural interfaces), if it survives, and if there is some effort to recover data from the
23:31:05<mirage335>previous civilization, it could speed things up.
23:31:15<appledash>Thank you for your work!
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23:31:58<mirage335>atphoenix Let's just say, depending on where and how safe, perhaps maybe somewhere between one, a few dozen, and a few hundred.
23:33:48<mirage335>This is a toolchain and document I've been building towards being able to create and use for many years. And now that it's finally operational enough for me to very rapidly do the kind of hardware design that teams of people normally seem to have to divide up, it was well worth packing up into an archive for preservation along the way.
23:43:31<atphoenix>mirage335, is your focus on the survival of tech? or is it on overall survival of civilization? you may also find this relevant: https://www.opensourceecology.org/
23:44:10<mirage335>atphoenix My focus is on developing technology. This just happens to be a very serious snapshot of a *once in a lifetime* amount of technology development. Enough that I want to make sure it will outlive me.
23:45:04<mirage335>These plans go all the way to the point of things like a specification for sharing 3D objects (which coincidentally turned out that VRchat has something vaguely similar), and DIY high-electrode-count neural interfaces.
23:45:48<mirage335>Anyone else making such claims might be rather doubtful, but I have actually done things like my own PCB photolithography, built still the most sensitive electroencephalography (EEG) at a time when everything else was many times worse, etc.
23:48:04<mirage335>Open Source Ecology is a nice project. That's a bit more 'heavy industry' than I'm at. What they have gets to tractors with nice productivity. What I have here would go from the bare minimum of farming and mining directly to making modern enough chips and software to get back to where we are now.
23:49:49<mirage335>atphoenix Besides, OSE already exists, and presumably is on cold storage throughout the world, not to mention known to any people still around. I assume that information exists and will continue to. The stuff I linked, because it's a toolchain and plans, tends to be put into practice. Much shorter window to preserve. And was made public only weeks
23:49:50<mirage335>ago.
23:50:24<mirage335>Hmm though, I should contact OSE.
23:55:47<@JAA>OrIdow6: Would you prefer me taking a look at Duolingo with qwarc?

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