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01:23:03<@OrIdow6>So I should be returning to normal activity levels soon - if there is anything I was supposed to get back to anyone on (except sonick), and I have forgotten, please let me know
01:23:09<@OrIdow6>Soon meaning around now
01:23:19<@OrIdow6>Though away for a few h in the immediate term
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03:34:58<lennier1>Steam is apparently removing the ability to rollback to old versions of games: https://www.pcgamesn.com/steam/beta-rollback-update
03:35:09<lennier1>Currently in beta, so not sure when it will be required.
03:35:38<lennier1>Steam has a mix of free to play and paid games.
03:37:36<lennier1>Not sure if there's any good automation for downloading old game builds. I played around with it before, but it was pretty fiddly.
03:38:25<Jake>from what I understand, you need to own the game to download the old builds? (Best chance would be the SteamDB people who have a semi-sizeable set of keys on an account, but I doubt they'd want to publish it)
03:39:53<lennier1>Definitely true for paid games, what about free to play?
03:41:10<lennier1>I do have a lot of games. Not sure if there are any download limits, definitely never tried to install everything at once.
03:41:26<Jake>I imagine you'd still need to hit install to 'own' it first?
03:42:51<lennier1>You might need to add it to an account, sure.
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04:26:23<lennier1>Some technical info here: https://steamdb.info/blog/manifest-request-codes/
04:26:42<lennier1>https://github.com/SteamRE/DepotDownloader
04:26:55<lennier1>https://github.com/ValvePython/steamctl
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05:08:29<Jake>Honestly, I think the best idea would be to contact the steamdb guy and try to get him to send something over to the archive. He seems to have compiled quite the archive already.
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05:15:43<lennier1>The manifest files are just metadata, right?
05:30:39<Jake>I believe so?
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05:54:35<lennier1>Depotdownloader is easy enough to use, though if you download multiple manifests it will overwrite the old ones by default (you can specify a download location).
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05:56:33<lennier1>I needed to give an account to download a free to play game, but didn't need to do anything to add it to my account, so I do think you could make some throwaway accounts and script mass downloading builds of any free games.
05:57:01<lennier1>You need to check steamdb to get the manifest IDs.
05:58:29<lennier1>As an example, downloading the oldest Windows build of Brawlhalla: DepotDownloader.exe -app 291550 -depot 291551 -manifest 6492858552396319232 -user yourusername -password yourpassword
06:09:32<wickedplayer494>Jake: xPaw has already reached out to Jason on Twitter
06:09:33<wickedplayer494>https://twitter.com/thexpaw/status/1441357799716446214
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13:24:56<h2ibot>JustAnotherArchivist edited Political parties/Germany (+5620): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=47186&oldid=43109
13:47:00<h2ibot>JustAnotherArchivist edited Political parties/Germany (+1417): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=47187&oldid=47186
13:48:21<gazorpazorp>Are the political parties' sites archived after being added to the wiki? Is there a point in adding parties from smaller countries?
13:48:56<@JAA>gazorpazorp: I'm collecting everything at the moment and will archive them later through AB. I'm doing this because there are elections in Germany today.
13:49:32<gazorpazorp>So would adding the parties of, say, Bulgaria, be useful?
13:50:09<@JAA>Yeah, it would. Especially so when the next elections take place, but I wouldn't mind archiving them in general either.
13:50:40<gazorpazorp>Cool, thanks :)
13:51:01<h2ibot>JustAnotherArchivist created Elections/2021 German Bundestag election (+408, Created page with "== Bundeswahlleiter == *…): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?title=Elections/2021%20German%20Bundestag%20election
14:16:07<h2ibot>JustAnotherArchivist created Elections/2021 September Swiss votes (+4969, Created page with "== Federal votes == *…): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?title=Elections/2021%20September%20Swiss%20votes
14:28:10<h2ibot>JustAnotherArchivist edited Elections/2021 September Swiss votes (+667): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=47190&oldid=47189
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14:41:22<gazorpazorp>In Bulgaria there are many different coalitions forming and disbanding every election. I honestly can't keep track of them, so I will include both a coalition (which is sometimes formed as a political party before the elections, but sometimes it's a coalition of parties that have already been voted in) and the separate parties that comprise it. Is that OK?
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15:30:22<h2ibot>Gazorpazorp created Political parties/Bulgaria (+11742, Initial list of all the parties I could find): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?title=Political%20parties/Bulgaria
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16:03:28<h2ibot>JustAnotherArchivist edited Political parties/Germany (+684): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=47192&oldid=47187
16:04:28<h2ibot>JustAnotherArchivist edited Elections/2021 German Bundestag election (+209): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=47193&oldid=47188
16:04:30<@JAA>gazorpazorp: Yeah, that's fine. I've done similar things before, although I don't remember which country that was. Politics are a mess, so these collections are bound to also be a mess.
16:09:28<gazorpazorp>I wish there was a site that showed political party formation, merging and renaming like this https://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/44218-linuxdistrotimeline-7.2.png
16:10:48<gazorpazorp>At least since we care about archiving, it's not so bad to include defunct parties (which could still technically exist, but don't participate in elections) since it's a part of history
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16:33:04<gazorpazorp>Is there anything else to do that would benefit from the fact that I'm from a country no one else is from in AT? Local stuff, etc
16:36:59<gazorpazorp>https://wiki.archiveteam.org/index.php/Governments_on_YouTube This includes "political parties" as well, so is there a point in copying all the YouTube links from the "Political parties/Bulgaria" there, or could I just add official channels of government, ministries, departments to the page and just link to the "Political parties/Bulgaria" for the political party channels? Otherwise we would need to keep both lists up to date -
16:36:59<gazorpazorp>if someone adds a political party to one of the 2 wiki pages, they'd probably not add it to the other one
16:40:23<@JAA>Yeah, no point in duplicating information. Ideally, we'd have a page like https://wiki.archiveteam.org/index.php?title=Governments/Kyrgyzstan for all countries.
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16:42:15<@JAA>But a lot of those are still in the old structure under https://wiki.archiveteam.org/index.php/ArchiveBot/Governments
16:42:40<@JAA>The bot that kept those tables updated etc. broke a long time ago, and I was working on a replacement but haven't had time to finish that yet.
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16:43:56<gazorpazorp>So can I make "Governments/Bulgaria" to list the government pages (including official YouTube links), then link to "Governments/Bulgaria" and to the "Political Parties/Bulgaria" from the "Governments on YouTube"?
16:44:11<@JAA>Yep, that sounds good to me.
16:45:17<gazorpazorp>Should I include official municipality/city government pages as well?
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16:47:28<@JAA>Sure. I'd suggest structuring the page by level then, i.e. having a section 'Federal', one 'State' or 'District' or whatever the appropriate word in Bulgaria is (with subsections for each state/district/...), and one for municipalities.
16:48:35<gazorpazorp>Got it, thanks!
17:00:03<Jake>wickedplayer494: ah, great. Doesn't look like they talked at all, but that would be a good outcome here.; lennier1: sure, but if someone already has all of the data compiled, it seems kind of silly to do it all over again? (Unless we are doing it in WARC or another format that would be more helpful)
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17:42:45<gazorpazorp>Would it be useful to indicate which official government sites don't support TLS/HTTPS? To my surprise none of the 3 biggest courts in Bulgaria support it. Maybe I could just add "http-only" or "https not supported" or "TLS not supported" or something like that after the links?
17:42:54<gazorpazorp>For the wiki, that is
17:53:26<@JAA>gazorpazorp: Can't think of any value in that. I just put the HTTP URL in the list for those.
17:55:24<gazorpazorp>What if the HTTPS version is different? The Ministry of Culture's HTTPS version redirects to an Outlook login page for me. http://www.mc.government.bg https://www.mc.government.bg
17:56:37<@JAA>Fun. Two entries, I'd say.
17:57:20<@JAA>I'm using the syntax '* URL | note = foobar' to make notes. That's from that bot I mentioned and may change in the future, but that way it's easy to change to whatever the future format will be (probably something involving a template).
17:57:57<gazorpazorp>I saw a few pages with [http://example.com Example Site]
17:58:06<gazorpazorp>and have been formatting the links that way
17:58:18<@JAA>That's a label for the link, not a note.
17:58:30<@JAA>I.e. that would be a clickable 'Example Site' link pointing to example.com.
17:59:04<gazorpazorp>I don't understand how the note syntax works together with the link syntax
17:59:23<gazorpazorp>is "URL" in your example the whole [http://... site name] part?
17:59:26<@JAA>By note I mean stuff like 'No longer exists as of 2021-09-26' or 'Outlook login form as of 2021-09-26'.
17:59:42<@JAA>I only put the URL itself there.
17:59:57<gazorpazorp>I see, I'll find some wiki pages to see it in action
17:59:58<@JAA>I think there was also some syntax to put the label in a structured way, but '[URL label]' works fine.
18:00:32<gazorpazorp>I'll continue to use [URL label] and if I have to change the syntax, it will be a fun exercise for learning awk or sed or whatever
18:00:47<@JAA>Yup, that's fine. And yes, that will be a lot of fun.
18:00:59<@JAA>I'm really looking forward to it. :-)
18:13:23<gazorpazorp>In addition to the official site of a ministry and it's Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, should I include the RSS link as well? It's always on the same site, like URL/feed or URL/rss
18:18:25<@JAA>That's not needed, I think.
18:30:37<lennier1>Jake: I do think it would be useful to get a list of app/depot/manifest IDs from them, and I'd encourage uploading the manifest files themselves to IA. But I was suggesting going beyond metadata and backing up the actual game data from Steam. Is there interest in something like a project to download every build of every free game? (I guess paid games would be outside the scope of Archive Team?)
18:31:48<lennier1>Looks like that would be 15,234 games, at least that are currently listed: https://store.steampowered.com/search/?sort_by=Released_DESC&maxprice=free
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20:05:30<Jake>Sure, I think every single build might be a ton of space though, like CSGO for example, has a ton of builds, all of which have a 20GB depot in it. I'm totally down to look into this, in fact, I think we should do it, depending on a lot of specifics.
20:16:15<lennier1>I think you could cut down on file size quite a bit if you de-duped different builds of the same game. A lot of updates might change the executable while leaving the assets the same. Then compress what was left.
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21:33:28<h2ibot>Gazorpazorp created Governments/Bulgaria (+8706, Initial list of ministries, agencies, etc.): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?title=Governments/Bulgaria
21:33:29<h2ibot>Gazorpazorp edited Governments on YouTube (+211, Add links to wiki pages for Bulgarian…): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=47195&oldid=43583
21:35:29<h2ibot>JustAnotherArchivist edited Governments on YouTube (-122, /* Bulgaria */ Replace full links with in-wiki…): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=47196&oldid=47195
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22:14:12<gazorpazorp>Didn't know about in-wiki links, sorry
22:50:42<h2ibot>JustAnotherArchivist edited Political parties/Switzerland (+257, Add RH): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=47197&oldid=45541
23:00:44<h2ibot>Ryz edited University Web Hosting (+925, Added "Stanford University" entry): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=47198&oldid=47181
23:08:45<h2ibot>JustAnotherArchivist edited Elections/2021 September Swiss votes (+1550): https://wiki.archiveteam.org/?diff=47199&oldid=47190
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