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02:18:26<purplebot>Google Poly edited by Ajay (+1216, Add info about retrieving data …) just now -- https://www.archiveteam.org/?diff=46522&oldid=46512
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04:05:24<atphoenix>OrIdow6, I know that sites have been put back online by original, sympathetic webmasters in cooperation with AT in a way that *only* AT could still access the site in order to complete an archiving effort. The opposite has also happened, like with Yahoo and Nintendo
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09:10:41<cadence>@jodizzle: Hi, I'm one of the people who spearheaded the youtube annotations archive project, and while the chat logs are lost to time, I believe the trust system worked very well for us.
09:12:23<cadence>@AK: in the annotations archive, when a worker submitted correct data its trust would increase, and higher trust means less (but never zero) chance to redo existing work for verification.
09:13:11<AK>Ooh that's clever
09:13:42<cadence>though here we have the problem that the annotation data is always the same when requested multiple times - it's an XML - but Y!A's page almost certainly will change if people submit new answers to the question, or even if there's a "recommended" section that's somewhat randomly generated.
09:14:21<AK>I think that's gonna be the issue, static vs potentially dynamic content
09:14:24<cadence>the calculation was probably something like...
09:14:35<AK>For an api (or annotations), the trust works well
09:14:56<cadence>1/($trust+1) chance to redo existing work
09:15:01<cadence>if work is correct, $trust++
09:15:21<cadence>if work is incorrect, $trust-=10
09:15:34<cadence>negative trust means you can't do work anymore, kill the access token
09:15:44<cadence>and then only allow a certain number of access tokens to be generated per IP address
09:15:59<cadence>that's how we did it. though this was mainly to stop faulty workers rather than maliciously edited data.
09:16:38<cadence>might want to do something like $trust = min($trust/2, $trust-10) so that it drops off sharply even when high, to prevent somebody jacking up their trust ridiculously high before submitting spam
09:16:59<cadence>/shrug
09:17:39<cadence>well, the issue isn't that the submissions need to be the _same,_ they just need to be _equivalent_
09:18:01<cadence>if you can afford some kind of server-side validation that checks the basic page structure, and extracts the main question body for comparison... that might work?
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09:21:55<cadence>a much simpler thing to do would be - assuming you already have a list of questions to scrape - hand them all out once, and after you reach the end, hand them all out again. only if there is a difference between the 1st and 2nd attempt of a question do you send it out a 3rd time. so if anybody tries to alter a question, they'd have to get really lucky and alter it twice somehow to not be caught.
09:21:55<cadence>this one assumes that we have enough time to scrape all questions twice, but it will at least try to go through all the questions a single time first.
09:21:55<cadence>food for thought!
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10:10:14<@Kaz>cadence: how do you authenticate workers
10:10:38<cadence>on first run, before they can do any work, they ask the central server for an access token.
10:11:03<cadence>if the requesting IP has not already generated too many tokens, the server will respond with a new access token with trust 0 that can be used
10:12:03<@Kaz>ah ok, so it's actually per-instance rather than like, 'per human operator' or anything like that
10:13:03<cadence>yah
10:13:03<cadence>there's no real way to verify humans
10:13:03<cadence>(fuck you stripe)
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10:33:30<AK>I suppose another option would be per human operator
10:33:42<AK>Then we could remember peoples trust levels for future projects
10:34:29<AK>(As in a token per operator that they use on all their instances)
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11:26:42<flashfire42>https://twitter.com/RoyalFamily/status/1380475865323212800?s=20
11:34:21<cadence>claims to be pro-life; dies anyway
11:37:56<Wayward>:o
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14:32:10<@OrIdow6>atphoenix: Could work here, don't know what the specifics of Zopolis's (who has gone offline) situation are
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15:07:25<purplebot>Google Poly edited by Ajay (+312) just now -- https://www.archiveteam.org/?diff=46523&oldid=46522
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17:08:09<jodizzle>cadence: Thanks for this. I didn't realize that the point of the trust system was to stop faulty workers, rather than malicious actors, but that makes sense.
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18:57:39<atphoenix>cadence: what is the reference to stripe? was that a human who tried to make trouble?
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22:08:21<tech234a>perhaps Stripe the payment processor?
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23:29:33<billy549>when is archiveteam warrior shirts? as cool as the stickers are, iirc it's not handled by a main AT person (though by them being linked on the wiki i trust them ;p)
23:29:40<billy549>would be cool to do a shirt ;)
23:32:09<@hook54321>billy549: i'm not sure but i think the person selling the stickers might be the person that designed it
23:32:51<billy549>ahh oki
23:33:57<@arkiver>chfoo: you know anything on that? ^
23:46:00<@chfoo>i don't remember what license things were uploaded to the wiki, but it should have been one of the licenses that allows sharing and commercial use
23:47:29<@hook54321>no license
23:47:51<billy549>its a very pretty logo
23:47:57<billy549>but no, i dont think ajh is the original designer
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23:52:03<@chfoo>oh, i think the logos were commissioned and licensing might be implied for reuse, but it was done before my time here
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23:53:45<@hook54321>I think I found the artist, I can ask. Either way I'm not sure a random person's redbubble store should be advertised on the wiki though.
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23:59:11<billy549>yeah

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